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2012 Dieback Already?

105K views 327 replies 52 participants last post by  JRG13 
#1 ·
I have heard from a beekeeper here in NY that he has been hearing of and seeing dieback in his outfit and others across the Nation, many different parts and in parts of Canada. How about y'all? Seen or heard something similar? What's going on? What are your observations or conversations about this like?

Is it mites? One guy I corresponded w/ thinks it has to do w/ the mild Winter (11/12) which was not only easy on the bees but the mites too, allowing an earlier buildup in the colonies.

Thanks for your input.
 
#291 ·
So LSpender these hives that you are checking were once strong. I mean they made it this far?
During the summer the mites build with the hive and just after the brood rearing slows in late summer the mites take over and the bees leave, carrying the mites with them. Doing anything they can to save the colony.
If you look very close you can see dead mites in the dead larvae.

If you have a strong hive that is making honey and its July, are you really going to test for mites?? no, mite testing was done months ago.

Farmers stepped up their spraying last summer also, due to the high bug survival of the previous mild winter.
 
#293 ·
ya, at our last beekeeping convention we listened to a speaker on this issue. I dont have the details but their studdy showed some real interesting findings, especially the synergistic effect between the chemical residues between mite chemicals within the hive and then being exposed to an outside toxin. The outside influence which would of otherwise been benign all of a sudden became very lethal when brought into the hive and exposed to our mite treatment residues. The specifically targeted fluvalinate, coumophose, and a couple of fungicides,
Ill try to dig up my notes on that talk,

they also spoke on irradiation, and showed some interesting results in regards to sterilizing bee boxes. The irradiation killed all the bacteria and helped in regards to AFB but they found hives that were irradiated trended to higher infections of Deformed Wing Virus and other bee related viruses. Why? THey dont know, but they ended the talk suggesting that there may be some kind of living function within the honeybee nest which would typically help suppress infections like viral infections. With the boxes being sterilized, that function may be removed allowing the viral infection to express itself. Perhaps there is a pathogenic interaction within the nest itself which actually helps the bees ward off disease

Just some thoughts
 
#294 ·
Logger Mike, you sir are correct & yes I am very aware of the Calif. Queen Breeders feeding of pollen to cell builders that had been exposed to fungicides. This is the reason many operations are not going to almonds any longer due to a lost cycle brood or two after bees are shipped back to Texas. Many have had to quit splitting bees in mid term due to the lack of brood in the hives some weeks after almonds are done blooming. Others have kept close tabs on the bees comming from almonds and records have shown a loss on average of at least 1 box of honey. So honey is over 2 bucks in the can & the rest of the math is real simple to figure when you don't go to almonds. As I am told it's heck of a nice pay check for the job but then is it worth it when some time bees are so beat up they can not be split.
My thoughts are then I would have to ask as to how many research dollars or then again tax dollars are spent on " feelings "
What really causes nosema???
 
#299 · (Edited)
My thoughts are then I would have to ask as to how many research dollars or then again tax dollars are spent on " feelings "
here is a post on bee-l about presentations his company is going to provide at two of the three national conventions.

http://community.lsoft.com/scripts/wa-LSOFTDONATIONS.exe?A2=ind1212&L=BEE-L&F=&S=&P=188327

We will be presenting the results of two years of wide area survey work
concerning exposure levels to clothianidin to honey bees in the corn belt
(Illinois, Indiana, and Nebraska) and in the canola seed production areas near
Lethbridge, Canada.

and from what I have read before, they don't have access to tax $ normally.

here is some research from India that indicates that some naturally liquids that may be used on hives that will help the brood. I'm not sure how long it will take our liberal government to approve the methods though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iowt6WPekA
 
#296 · (Edited)
Those cases of round up resistance are coming from the same natural mechanism of selection pressure as every other weed forming resistance to its applied herbicide.
Specifically wild mustard has the ability to cross pollinate with canola, which in some cases has bred round up resistance. But that is arguable. We have not had any RR wild mustard cases on our farm. In fact, we have not found any cases of round up resistance in any weeds on our farm as of yet, but in time, as the selection pressures increase, and the weed spectrum change, we may well find some of those resistant weeds also.

having the ability to treat for weeds with roundup, to which were very expensive to treat for previously, has been a huge economical benefit to farmers in the short run. Even now, if the weeds have formed resistance, and the farmers have to go back, the weeds have not changed in any way other than not being killed off by roundup. So it would simply be back to old business
 
#297 ·
What we have seen much more than roundup resistance are weeds that emerge later and later in the season and may not even clear the existing canopies. An annual corn/bean rotation with some good ole Atrazine continues to do a pretty good job of weed control though.
 
#298 ·
the only point I was trying to make about the transfer is
In the same way, the backup enzyme provides an alternate pathway for amino acid synthesis to continue. However, the pathway may not be as efficient and thus unable to produce as many amino acids
the weeds that now have resistance to roundup have had there enzyme's altered and the new pathway is not as efficient and doesn't produce as many amino acids. The bees get amino acids from the pollen, heck I'm not even sure if any of the 10 weeds give pollen to the bees. But if they do is it a problem??
as far as Atrazine goes I hope they keep using roundup, they had runnoff from a field go into an organic farm up here, the last time they had used atrazine in the field was many many years ago, when they analyzed the dirt had very high concentrations of atrazine.

I don't see any weeds up here, or down here for the canadian beeks, that survive roundup, but I'm sure they don't use it as much as some of the larger acreage planting in your areas. But thinking about it, if the enzyme gets altered, I would assume that they could also get altered, cause the same amino acid problem but not be resistent to roundup, but after wading through that last link I ain't going there again.
 
#310 ·
Well that is what was reported in the most recent ABJ. No one that I have talked to has any idea where that number came from though. My guess is they bit on a planted story but who knows.......except maybe Keith. ;)
 
#312 ·
Ron the number of bees for sale after almonds looks normal to me. The amount of beekeepers needing to buy bees before almonds was quite astonishing! I had 300 for sale and long after they were gone i was still getting a call a day for bees no one had any to sell. I know of bees right now being sold for 190 a single before almonds and they i think are sold out last week! My guess is almonds might be on the short side this year.
Nick
 
#315 ·
It sounds like it will turn out the same as the last few years. By mid Jan. everybody is talking about a shortage of bees for almonds and by the 10th of Feb. there is a surplus and the beekeepers who havent placed their bees yet beg you on their knees to take them for half price!
 
#321 ·
http://www.beesource.com/point-of-v...ter/almond-grower-newsletter-january-10-2013/
>>2013 Bee Supply
As we do every January, we will be making last-minute adjustments in our bee supply, cutting and filling as winter bee losses come into focus. Our + or – 5% on the number of bee colonies you contract with as allows us to book +5%, then cut back to -5% should conditions warrant.

Current Bee Problems
Getting strong bee colonies for almonds (8 to 10 frames of bees) will be a much tougher task for the 2013 season than it has been in recent years, for two main reasons. 1. loss of the most effective chemical for varroa mite control. 2. poor bee forage last year due to drought conditions in most bee areas.

The varroa mite has been the scourge of beekeeping since it was first found in the U.S. in 1987. Varroa mites not only kill or weaken honey bees directly, but also spread deadly viruses from bee to bee, from colony to colony and from apiary to apiary. The most effective varroa control chemical became unavailable in 2012 because the overseas manufacturer stopped production. Beekeepers that stockpiled the material in 2011 got good varroa control in 2012, but some beekeepers had to use alternate materials and found their colonies weakened to the point where many perished or were too far gone to nurse back to almond pollinating strength. There is a crying need for effective varroa-control products. The difficulty in controlling this pernicious pest with approved products is causing some beekeepers to improvise their own varroa treatments.

Drought conditions have left bee colonies in many areas in a weakened nutritional state, making them more susceptible to varroa mites and its associated viruses. This one-two punch from varroa and drought will result in above average winter losses of bees and overall weaker bee colony strength for almonds. Although it will be tougher this year, we are confident that we will meet our commitment to supply you with 8+ frame bee colonies. Some beekeepers are predicting $200/colony bee rental prices for almonds for the few growers that haven’t yet contracted for bees or for growers whose beekeepers jumped ship because they didn’t feel they were getting a fair price. We are confident that our beekeepers will stick with us even though some will lose money this year due to the unforeseen problems outlined above.<<

I think that about sums it up.
 
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