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  1. #221
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    San Mateo, CA
    Posts
    4,953

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    >My NC contact eluded to a Beekeeper returning fromn CA as the source of problems

    Sure, blame it on us. We liberal Californians are at fault again, you all know it's a Sodom and Gomorrah out here.

  2. #222
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,648

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    i don't get how a beekeeper returning to nc from california could be a source for a problem.

    how does it work?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  3. #223
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,848

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    (Fluvalinate).?
    amitraz

  4. #224
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
    Posts
    2,304

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    How does it work?
    Easy. They picked up some strange mutated virus in the almonds.That came in from bees from Florida. And the Florida bees got it originally as they traveled through North Carolina.

    Or some variation of the above...lol.

    Really, most all of our big die offs can be traced back to mites and the viruses they pack around. Even if you knock the mites back, the viruses will have to run their course. At least thats what I have seen since all these big losses started a few years ago.

    Add some spray damage and nosema and we are so screwed.

  5. #225
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,648

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    so the losses are from viruses vectored via mites.

    bee flu. great.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  6. #226
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Coatesville, Pa, USA
    Posts
    838

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Where are our investigators? Our Land Grant Colleges and State Apiary Inspection Services? Is this another sign of our times? Fiscal Cliff? What about Bee Cliff?
    Perhaps I should start a new thread, but since you mentioned it I thought I'd throw it out. Has anyone been inspected in the last 2 years? I talked with a lady at a beekeeping club meeting the fall before I started beekeeping 3 years ago. She said that I'd be inspected every year or at least every 2 years and I haven't seen anyone yet. I even contacted them early this spring and they didn't know who was going to be doing the inspections yet. To me this sounds like another "government run organization" flopping again, but I've heard of others that have spoken very highly about the inspectors. Has something happened in the last 2 years or so that I'm not aware of?

  7. #227
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,648

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    but i've not heard of either of the two synthetic miticides being pulled from the shelf, has anyone else heard this?

    rumor has it the mites are showing measured tolerance to one of them though, is this true?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  8. #228
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,848

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    I was inspected in May this year. But that's MA.

  9. #229
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,648

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    i had to call my inspector out twice, and he came. i have had bee samples for him for a month, and he hasn't had a chance to get by and pick them up yet. we have two for the state, north half and south half.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  10. #230
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,848

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    Don't wait. Send them to Beltsville. Free and better anaylsis.

  11. #231
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,648

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    called beltsville first. they weren't set up to do the sub-species identification. beltsville refered me to tucson, but they never called me back. the state boys said they would be glad to id them, but haven't come by yet.

    i could mail the usurpation bees, as they are preserved in alcohol, but i'd rather visit with the apiarist.

    the bees with possible nosema are frozen, mailing would again be pain
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  12. #232
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,660

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    Quote Originally Posted by delber View Post
    Perhaps I should start a new thread, but since you mentioned it I thought I'd throw it out. Has anyone been inspected in the last 2 years? I talked with a lady at a beekeeping club meeting the fall before I started beekeeping 3 years ago. She said that I'd be inspected every year or at least every 2 years and I haven't seen anyone yet. I even contacted them early this spring and they didn't know who was going to be doing the inspections yet. To me this sounds like another "government run organization" flopping again, but I've heard of others that have spoken very highly about the inspectors. Has something happened in the last 2 years or so that I'm not aware of?
    I hear that PA has only one Apiary Inspector. So, unless you need Interstate Transport Papers you probably won't see an Inspector. NY only has two, so Commercial Migratory outfits are all that get looked at, unless a nonmigratory commercial outfit has a problem. Then they will get some attention.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  13. #233
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,660

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    but i've not heard of either of the two synthetic miticides being pulled from the shelf, has anyone else heard this?

    rumor has it the mites are showing measured tolerance to one of them though, is this true?
    Can you be more specific? Which two synthetic miticides are u refering to?

    Mites have been resistant to Apistan(fluvalinate) and Checkmiteplus(chumophous) for quite some time now, having been around since 1987 and 1989 or 90. So, yes, it's true. I don't know of either being pulled from the shelf.

    Miticure(amitraz, the active ingredient in TacTik) was take off the shelf by the manufacturer because of Law Suits, not mite resistance. Back in the 1990s.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  14. #234
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Jacksonville, NC
    Posts
    218

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    Lost about 40% as of right now...I'll be lucky if by the end of winter the losses remain bellow 50%. Did treat this fall...some with Apiguard some with MAQS. Some, I did not treat at all. On the treated ones, very little mite fall outs. In the end, I had losses from every category.

    The only common denominator on all these hives is that by the end of June/mid July, all had at least two 10 F deeps, full of bees...some had 3...literally busting with bees. Coming late fall, some of these hives just melted away. I did not take any honey from the fall flow, so they had plenty of reserves...One week the hive would have bees...next week all gone...disappeared. The only thing left was plenty of reserves ( honey and pollen), and some dead freshly emerged baby bees. Yes, some hives did have the mite poop on the wall of the comb cells, but then again, this was the case in the treated and no treated category. Some of these hives were established hives, some where splits and swarms from early 2012. All were lead by 2012 queens.

    If there is a silver lining in this... all the 5 F deep nucs I made in June and built to 2 deeps or 3 deeps by fall...are alive and well. Did treat about 1/2 of them with Apiguard while not treating the other half. So far no difference.
    Hopefully, they will make it and be the base of my 2013 "recovery plan"...

  15. #235
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Blacksburg, VA
    Posts
    447

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    Quote Originally Posted by apis maximus View Post
    Lost about 40% as of right now...I'll be lucky if by the end of winter the losses remain bellow 50%.

    The only common denominator on all these hives is that by the end of June/mid July, all had at least two 10 F deeps, full of bees...some had 3...literally busting with bees. Coming late fall, some of these hives just melted away. I did not take any honey from the fall flow, so they had plenty of reserves...One week the hive would have bees...next week all gone...disappeared. The only thing left was plenty of reserves ( honey and pollen), and some dead freshly emerged baby bees. Some of these hives were established hives, some where splits and swarms from early 2012.

    If there is a silver lining in this... all the 5 F deep nucs I made in June and built to 2 deeps or 3 deeps by fall...are alive and well.
    I have seen a hair over 20% losses in production hives this fall, mostly the last month. The symptoms are very similar to what you are describing, strong colonies with plenty of stores, mostly honey, very few of the deadouts were fed this year before the crash. Crashed in a period of about 3 weeks abandoning brood on 1 or 2 frames to the sides of the small dead cluster. Pretty certain we're looking at PMS of some sort. The surviving hives appear to be strong and in good shape. My nucs are holding up well, no losses so far. I had about 90 colonies before the crash, half 10 frame, half nucs. One yard lost 75% (small yard, 3 out of 4), one 12 colony yard didn't lose any.

  16. #236
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,660

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    Kim Flottum's Editorial in the Dec. Issue of Bee Culture states that beekeeping isn't sustainable. Things are looking pretty gloomy these days.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  17. #237
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Portland, Oregon
    Posts
    967

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    I'd certainly agree that it is not sustainable the way we have been doing it.

    But many of us have been saying that for a while now.

  18. #238
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Coatesville, Pa, USA
    Posts
    838

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    Ok So what's the answer / answers? I know MP and others are for nucs for obvious enough reasons, but what else? I am not commercial, but I have also lost 3 hives this year before the end of fall and it seems that the reasons are similar to what's been said. Numbers just tart to dwindle down to next to nothing, then they get robbed out and dead. I realized late summer 2 of them were low on stores so I started feeding and they seemed to be doing well. 10 frame deep box, with 4 solid brood, 2-3 empty and 2-3 capped stores and then they just started losing numbers. (queen was new this year) My nucs are doing well, as is one of my larger hives.

  19. #239
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,660

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    A friend in the Catskills is seeing smaller clusters of bees going into the Winter. Friends he knows are too. What's up w/ that? Dwindling disease?
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  20. #240
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,469

    Default Re: 2012 Dieback Already?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    A friend in the Catskills is seeing smaller clusters of bees going into the Winter. Friends he knows are too. What's up w/ that? Dwindling disease?
    Poor fall flow, not enough pollen, not enough brood, not enough bees...small clusters?

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