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  1. #421
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    Default Re: Ask Questions Here!

    Brother Adam was a tireless worker. It's fascinating to read about his trips to collect bees from all sorts of obscure places around the world. I really enjoyed reading Beekeeping at Buckfast Abbey. Highly recommended, for a glimpse into what true dedication looks like.

  2. #422
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    Dec 2002
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    Denver, Colorado
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    Default Re: Ask Questions Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    In a matter of two years?
    They were still being treated for in the mid nineties on the west coast.


    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Years ago Steve Taber speculated in an ABJ Article that if all US Beekeepers were willing to go w/out treating Varroa that in 30 years we would have Varroa tolerant bees. He also said that we also wouldn't have any Commercial Beekeepers.
    I'd say three years and maybe temporarily.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  3. #423
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    May 2009
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    Canterbry, UK
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    Default Re: Ask Questions Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    you often hear that the pollination by honeybees is responsible for a big portion of the world's food supply. is that true? are there any reliable estimates of what would happen to the food supply if managed bees suffered a 90% loss in a given year?
    I looked into this a year or two ago. A figure of 65% of so of Europe's agricultural plantlife was being bandied about, and the number was rooted in a study someone had done.

    It turned out that the 65 (or so) percent was the proportion of plants in European agriclture pollinated by bees, regardless of how whether they were foodstuffs or not (herbs used in the perfume industry for example were included.) There was no attempt to find a figure representing a relation of bees with staple food crops (which would give meaning to 'we will go hungry without bees' claims). Since almost all our staple foods don't need bees, you'd get a very different figure. Looking at the list it was clear that when it came to foodstuffs, it was largely food luxuries that were affected by pollination rates.

    The idea that without bees we would suffer a major loss of foodcrops isn't in my view sustainable. Its a handy myth, shoved forward at every opportunity by those who's agendas it suits - and believed by those who don't make the effort to look into the realities.

    Mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  4. #424
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Ask Questions Here!

    You are entitled to your own opinion. Did you look at the Morse and Calderone Paper? Have you seen it?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  5. #425
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    Aug 2012
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    Barrie, Ontario, Canada
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    Default Re: Ask Questions Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by mike bispham View Post
    Looking at the list it was clear that when it came to foodstuffs, it was largely food luxuries that were affected by pollination rates.
    I guess it depends on what you call a luxury. I can see what you are saying from a world caloric intake perspective - particularly if you include what is fed to livestock. I would guess that the combined volume of all pollinated crops would still be a significant loss of food volume.
    Adam - Zone 5A
    www.adamshoney.com

  6. #426
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    Default Re: Ask Questions Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    You are entitled to your own opinion. Did you look at the Morse and Calderone Paper? Have you seen it?
    For anyone who hasn't seen the Calderone paper:

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0037235

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by zhiv9 View Post
    I guess it depends on what you call a luxury. I can see what you are saying from a world caloric intake perspective - particularly if you include what is fed to livestock. I would guess that the combined volume of all pollinated crops would still be a significant loss of food volume.
    What we all live or die by is energy. So yes, calorific (or equivalent) value is what is needed to capture a raw picture of how much we need bees in order to not go hungry.

    Most of those calories come directly or indirectly from the staples - grains, oilseeds, and from animal products (which BYW require between 6 and 10 times as many calories feedstock to yeild - if we want to avoid world hunger, eat less animal produce!)

    I've only skimmed the paper, but it doesn't appear to provide any figures for non-pollinated crops that could be proportioned against those needing (or 'benefitting from') insect pollination. In other words it can't tell us what proportion of US food benefits from, or is dependent on, insect pollinators. Nor does it attach calrific value. In other words, it can't offer any useful information to questions about how dependent we are on insect pollinators.

    Look at a typical day's eating, and ask yourself how many of the calories you've consumed needed insect pollinators? Probably fruit juice is the biggest item. There was no such thing when I was a kid! It wouldn't kill me to live without it now.

    Try to put a value on that 'significant', and ask why you value it that way.

    Don't get me wrong, I love bees, and I love wildlife. I just don't like BS. I especially don't like big fat fibs designed for, and propagated by, special monied interests.

    Mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  8. #428
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    Default Re: Ask Questions Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by mike bispham View Post
    Most of those calories come directly or indirectly from the staples - grains, oilseeds, and from animal products (which BYW require between 6 and 10 times as many calories feedstock to yeild - if we want to avoid world hunger, eat less animal produce!)
    Studies have also shown that pollination can improved the yields of some staple crops such as soybeans or canola. Though neither one require it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mike bispham View Post
    Look at a typical day's eating, and ask yourself how many of the calories you've consumed needed insect pollinators? Probably fruit juice is the biggest item. There was no such thing when I was a kid! It wouldn't kill me to live without it now.
    I guess it depends on how/what you eat. So far today (1:45pm, here) I have eaten items containing blueberries, almonds, plums, apples and zucchini. I would say that they made up about 30% of my caloric intake. This varies by season

    Maybe they should be saying bees pollinate 65% of what we actually enjoy eating as opposed to the volume of what we eat.



    It also depends on what you eat.
    Adam - Zone 5A
    www.adamshoney.com

  9. #429
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhaldridge View Post
    For anyone who hasn't seen the Calderone paper:

    http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...l.pone.0037235
    Thanks. You should teach me how to do that someday.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  10. #430
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    Default Re: Ask Questions Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by zhiv9 View Post
    I guess it depends on how/what you eat. So far today (1:45pm, here) I have eaten items containing blueberries, almonds, plums, apples and zucchini. I would say that they made up about 30% of my caloric intake. [...]It also depends on what you eat.
    Yep. That's a lovely diet. As you say, much is seasonal - if you made an annual audit, and perhaps restricted yourself in 'food miles' terms you'd probably rely on staples more. Though you also probably resist that - you appreciate your desert items.

    It also the sort of diet I'd describe as 'luxury' on the basis that those who have to be careful with costs tend not to enjoy these sorts of things (unless they are able to grow them themselves.) Its cheaper to meet your first essential dietary need (energy) through the staple foodstuffs - which tend to not need bees.

    Mike (UK)
    Anti-husbandry: Medication + Reproduction = Continuing Sickness
    http://www.suttonjoinery.co.uk/CCD/

  11. #431
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    Default Re: Ask Questions Here!

    Compared to much of the World just about everything we enjoy in the so called "Western World" or the "Developed Nations" is luxury.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  12. #432
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    Default Re: Ask Questions Here!

    The secondary part of the discussion about what foods require pollination are crops which require pollination only to raise seed. Because of this many of the calculations about the value of pollination include all dairy products because alfalfa is a primary feed yet only requires bees to raise the seed and not the actual forage. Onions and many other seeds as well I am sure are included.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  13. #433
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    Feb 2013
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    Clover, WV
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    Solomon,

    On your website, you mention not feeding HFCS, and only feeding sugar syrup when you have to. I have 8 hives now, all from cutouts, and all of them seem light. 3 of them barely have any stores of nectar or honey, but all of them seem to have lots of pollen.

    Is the goldenrod flow enough to carry everyone through, or should I feed 2:1 until they stop taking it? What are the chances of a hive in a single medium making it?

    Thanks,
    J
    John Sampson-Tucker County, WV
    14 hives - All cutouts and swarms

  14. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cub View Post
    Is the goldenrod flow enough to carry everyone through, or should I feed 2:1 until they stop taking it?
    I cannot speak to your conditions, but it isn't enough here. I feed granulated sugar nowadays, no syrup for a while. With syrup, you're making them do a lot of work and introducing the problems that syrup has. With granulated sugar, they don't need to process it and they won't use it if they don't need it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cub View Post
    What are the chances of a hive in a single medium making it?
    With granulated sugar in a super on top, I'd give them some chance. Not much otherwise.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  15. #435
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    Default Re: Ask Questions Here!

    With "barely any stores of nectar or honey", plus granulated sugar on top, their chances are not good.

    Sugar syrup (preferable with a little vinegar added) fed now means they can with ease store it in the comb and it will be available in the natural way to them through winter. This done right, plus any fall honey they collect, will improve their chances considerably.

    There are only 3 things you need for your hive to survive winter. The bees need to be properly housed, have enough food, and be healthy. Get those 3 right and, barring accidents, they will survive. In fact it's not asking much, just the same liveable conditions that any living thing needs to survive.

    Works for me, my winter survival is close to 100%.

    Use white sugar not brown, brown sugar has not had impurities removed that are not good for bees. do not concern yourself with rumours that white sugar is "poison". It is not poison.

    If you do feed syrup, the main risk is it can cause robbing so ask here before doing it to get advise on the correct procedure.

    One medium can be rather small to survive winter, to be "properly housed", 2 boxes would be better. The only way you will get them into two boxes in time and have them draw all the comb will be by the stimulation from feeding sugar syrup. Feeding granulated sugar will not achieve this.

    If you do go this way, time is running short, start now.
    Last edited by Oldtimer; 08-07-2013 at 03:13 PM.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  16. #436
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Ask Questions Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cub View Post
    Is the goldenrod flow enough to carry everyone through, or should I feed 2:1 until they stop taking it? What are the chances of a hive in a single medium making it?

    Thanks,
    J
    I'm not Solomon and I am not Treatment Free, but since you are asking a Feeding question let me take a stab at it.

    Feed your colonies until they are as heavy as you can get them. And then, say sometime in November, place a 2" rim on each hive, lay a sheet of newspaper in the rim and pour a 5 lb bag of sugar on the paper. Spread it out evenly and put the covers back on. If you prefer fondant, that will work too.

    Five lbs of sugar will give you about a months worth of feed depending on the colony of bees. It could get your bees thru most of the Winter. So, sometime in February you might want to take a peak and see who is still alive and whether more sugar would be a good idea.

    Best wishes.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  17. #437
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    Reno, NV
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    Default Re: Ask Questions Here!

    Thanks mark, I have been trying to estimate how much sugar I will need for my hives this winter. I had guesstimated it to be around 22.5 lbs of sugar per hive. Your 5 lbs per month works out to be 25 lbs of sugar to cover from November 1st to March 31st.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  18. #438
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Sugar is as a reserve, an extender, They should have stores in their comb to last until they need the sugar.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  19. #439
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    Feb 2013
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    Clover, WV
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    Solomon, Mark, and Oldtimer,

    I put out a gallon of 2:1 syrup yesterday evening, and it was half gone this morning. The plan is to do this until they either stop taking it, or until it is too cold for them to take it. The feeders I am using are chicken waterers, out in the open. All my hives have top entrances, so feeding in the hive is not practical, although a frame feeder interests me.

    Does the 2" rim filled with sugar still applicable with top entrances? All my equiment is homemade, and there is 3'+ of snow where we are on a fairly regular basis, so the bottom opening didn't make sense.

    Thanks,
    J
    John Sampson-Tucker County, WV
    14 hives - All cutouts and swarms

  20. #440
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    Default Re: Ask Questions Here!

    John,

    I have had hives with frame feeders with top entrances robbed out and destroyed, but that's probably expected. I have had no robbing problems with sugar and I have used it on hives with my 3/4" shim entrance as the spacer. These hives have full and open access to anybody who wants to walk in the hive and steal the sugar, but nobody does.

    Plain sugar just doesn't have the draw for robbing. You can lay it out on the ground and bees will largely ignore it unless it gets soaked, and even then, they'll only go after the goo. They don't seem interested in sugar unless there is no other option in the hive.

    I'd recommend forgetting the syrup all together and go with the sugar if it's needed. I've had great success with it and consider it the best option for feeding.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

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