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  1. #101
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    With the state of photography then they may well have been posing, which doesn't mean they weren't working hives w/ bees in them. Cogshall's are famous beekeepers from days past.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  2. #102
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    Jan 2003
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    Manitoba Canada
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    5,759

    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    >>Go w/ the flow. Deal w/ what is infront of you. Check your life attitude and get it straight. We live in a system of life, not outside of it. Personally I probably live more on the edge than any of y'all who don't pay bills from beekeeping. This isn't bragging, it's just what is. My life style is not extravagant, though my house is paid for. And, from where I sit things are good. There I did say it, things are good.

    Couldnt agree more,
    I have been doing a search on YouTube viewing Almond pollination vids and also viewing some package bee producer vids. If anyone wants to point out a challenge, they should look at these guys and how they manage their ops. For all the negative news coming out of California and southern Florida and Georgia, youd think beekeeping would of been long time lost. In fact, ask anyone none beekeeper on the street and they think all the bees are dead.
    Quite the opposite,
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  3. #103
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    Earlier this year my neighbor was found dead at his computer. His browser still opened to one of the blogs he frequented. He was 95.
    Exactly how I want to go. Researching some dynamite quotes on Beesource. I sure hope I can muster up the strength to click the POST button before I expire.


    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    He was also a facebook friend.
    Facebook will expire long before I do!
    -- Victor Hugo -- "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  4. #104
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Grow a pair and move on.
    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Who are you talking to?
    The answer to Mark's question should be obvious. Daniel Y talks to himself frequently.
    -- Victor Hugo -- "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  5. #105

    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    which doesn't mean they weren't working hives w/ bees in them.
    No, but they probably couldn't just drop those clothes off at the corner drycleaners....it must have been quite a chore to keep nice clothes...nice.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  6. #106

    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Facebook will expire long before I do!
    I hope you are right.....
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  7. #107
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    The answer to Mark's question should be obvious. Daniel Y talks to himself frequently.
    Du'oh!! Headslap icon.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  8. #108
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    I only know how to make two icons. and I have nothing against any other icons animated or otherwise.
    Some may consider this response "colon ot colon" (see below for explanation of the "colon ot colon")


    I am assuming that you do most of your posting from some kind of smart phone, and it doesn't handle the pop-up icon window gracefully that I see a PC. Icons can be generated by clicking on them from the icon display, or alternatively, you can just use the keyboard shortcut. You probably use a keyboard shortcut of a "colon", followed by a "right parenthesis" to get the happy face

    In the same manner you can use a shortcut of "colon eek colon" to get Ignore the quote marks, and spaces, they are just there for readability.

    "colon lpf colon" for

    And similarly "colon ws colon" for

    You can find the codes for all icons by holding the cursor over the icons when in a "compose" window while using a PC and Beesource. (Mouseover is the term for this that the geeks use. "colon lookout colon" )
    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    What do I owe you. I like to pay people to do what I can't.
    The only payment I request is to use one or more icons in each reply to any Acebird post. "colon gh colon"
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 11-09-2012 at 10:57 AM.
    -- Victor Hugo -- "Common sense is in spite of, not the result of, education.

  9. #109
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    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    I could keep bees as a hobby, which automatically prevents me from the bee-craft guild.
    I think of a hobby as a craft and an industry as the real thing.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  10. #110
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    Jul 2012
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    St. Paul, MN
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    145

    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    I don't treat my hives unless I need to. (I test for mites before I treat)
    Seems my hives reach a Varroa level that needs to be treated within 2 years.

    I caught a swarm this year. It too had about 25 mites per 300 bees. According to the research at a nearby university it is unlikely it would make it through the winter without some intervention by me (be it a natural approach or chemical).

    I have a very small sample size (only 3 hives currently). However, when I attend my local beekeeping meetings, this sentiment is not the minority.

    In my opinion an organism that needs treatment/intervention by people is broken.

    Like I said the way I posed the original question, there are many ways to interpret. Hopefully this clarifies how I've been thinking about it and you can add your positive responses to my sample size and cheer me up.
    Last edited by Joes_bees; 11-09-2012 at 10:01 AM. Reason: removed loaded question.

  11. #111
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    I walked away after posting that and had a few epiphanies I'll try to put into words.

    Bees were brought over from Europe to do a job. To pollinate and support our agriculture so that we could feed our nation. So as long as they do it, it's not really broken. If we are not around to manage bees and they were to all die... well they weren't suppose to be here anyways and they don't have a nation to feed.

  12. #112
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joes_bees View Post

    Bees were brought over from Europe to do a job. To pollinate and support our agriculture so that we could feed our nation.

    Maybe you found something I didn't when I researched 18th Century Beekeeping while working at Colonial Williamsburg in Williamsburg, VA, the second Colonial Capital of Virginia. I found no indication that bees were brought here to pollinate crops other than the fact that many of the fruit trees and vegetables not native to this country were brought here at the same time as the honeybees.

    Whereas, a report of the Gross Colonial Product of Virginia in the early 18th Century included "tonnes of beeswax", a product of 18th Century beekeeping. So, my conclusion is that there were a number of reasons for bringing beehives to VA from England and the primary source of income from beehives for the colony, a business venture, was from beeswax and not pollination. At least I could find no evidence.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  13. #113
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    I did some homework, asking a number of persons from various aspects of beekeeping from across the Nation, many of them name you would recognize, "How would you characterize ther state of beekeeping today?" I didn't ask permission to attribute their comments to them by name. So, trust me (?).

    "Healthy prices, sick or about to be sick bees, it is a risky business when you add varroa [and] viruses into the equation."

    "...beekeeping is more challenging w/ mites, nosema, habitat disruption, altered crops that may have lost either nutritional value, attractivesness to bees or both, and constant pressure to migratory bees."

    "much of the current plight of beekeeping is the lack ... of beekeepers."

    "the sudden appearance of lots of small [scale] beekeepers and new clubs has some of the old timers a bit conflicted."

    "some researchers suffer from CCD, Cash Cow Disease."

    "same ol', same ol" No big changes. Lots of Challenges. Still making honey and money."


    "The state of beekeeping? Where are our new researchers?"


    I was hoping to find amongst those I asked some validation of my opinion. Some comments bouy that up and others don't. I think it safe to say that an answer to Joes_bees' question is more complex and intricate than may be apparent.

    The state of beekeeping ceertainly is something to be concerned about, but not to the point of making one freeze in ones tracks or give up. I see too much success out around the State of NY and in other States.

    Hang in there Joe. It'll get better.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  14. #114
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I think of a hobby as a craft and an industry as the real thing.
    I think you right. But this is a paradox of beekeeping to me - industry uses the same (similar) approach as a craftsmen. This is exact reason why I think beekeeping is "broken", because industrial part is still sometime uses ancient approaches, which is a contradiction to reality. I am not criticizing, I just observing....
    Last edited by cerezha; 11-09-2012 at 08:30 PM. Reason: grammar
    Серёжа, Sergey

  15. #115
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Can you illustrate what you have observed?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  16. #116
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    Manning, SC
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joes_bees View Post
    Bees were brought over from Europe to do a job. To pollinate and support our agriculture so that we could feed our nation.
    From what I've read, bees were brought over to provide honey......basically, the only sweetener at the time. It was not unusual for colonists to have a hive or two in their yard. Using them for pollination came later.
    http://OxaVap.com
    Your source for Oxalic Acid Vaporizers

  17. #117
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    >>In my opinion an organism that needs treatment/intervention by people is broken.

    then are we as people broken also?
    I dont think so, treatments and intervention with medicine has provided alot of benefit to the world
    same goes with the animals we keep
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  18. #118
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    I think my point is still valid even though I did not have the right reason for importing European honeybees.

    My plan was to become a researcher, I wasn't going to freeze in my tracks and I hope my comments didn't cause other people to. Now I just have to make sure I don't get infected with CCD

  19. #119
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Can you illustrate what you have observed?
    Sure, with pleasure, but remember my original statement: " I think beekeeping is "broken", because industrial part is still sometime uses ancient approaches, which is a contradiction to reality. "
    I am a member of oldest in LA beekeepers organization. The organization is basically a "department" of commercial apiary. They have beekeeping classes in the commercial apiary. Owner of apiary was a main instructor in the classes (nice guy). As a new to the bees, I took all their classes (at commercial apiary) and visited their meetings. So, what I am presenting is my own understanding and interpretation what was happened. Well, 70% classes were about using all kind of nasty chemicals to treat the bees. Keep in mind, it was introductory classes for beginners. At the meetings we also were heavily instructed to use all kind chemical treatments - I did not remember exactly because it was overwhelming for the beginner. Also, we were encouraged to make a purchases through commercial apiary. In September meeting, we were instructed to treat bees with ***** (put your favorite chemical here) until December! When I asked their opinion regarding protective behavior of my bees, the answer was - re-queen immediately (and buy Queen from the apiary). Understand me correctly - I was not forced to buy from the apiary, but it was heavily suggested... So, I decided to follow my own instinct and I did everything opposite to what "experts" suggested - I never used ANY treatments and I never re-queen. My bees are extremely prolific. They grow to 6 mediums high and I collected approximately 30 kilos of honey from one hive leaving to them plenty of honey, not SYRUP (they NEVER taste the syrup). They swarmed beautifully and we have two great, very prolific hives. The bottom line is that my "modern" approach based on extensive studying the subject in the books and on the internet appeared to be better (to me) than "commercial" approach they presented in the classes and at the meetings. If approach (system) did not work for you (me)? How you call it?

    I feel very comfortable to call system "broken" if it does not provide any useful function to me. It's like a car - it may be great car, but if it does not function - one could call it "broken", right? "Broken" - just brings attention to the fact, that something needs to be repaired, nothing else. Added: Some virtual scene come in mind - one person is trying to sell old car to another. One: "it is broken!". Other: "it's OK, it's OK; do not worry, it still could move!"

    I think, Mark that you are mixing up a few things:
    - look at the title - it is about beekeeping broken, not YOUR apiary or your business;
    - you extrapolate your own feelings and success in managing YOUR business on the whole system.
    - increased (if any) production of honey and money is not necessary an indication of the well-being. Sometime, the machinery is so massive (indication of old days, now everything China-made flimsy) that it would continue for while even if some part is broken... the concern of some people what if this monster will collapse? Apparently, your opinion is that the "monster" will not collapse and will continue.Added: Some analogy come in mind - Soviet Union were "broken" for good 40 years before it actually collapsed... but many people just refused to accept this fact EVEN after it was already collapsed!
    - there is nothing bad about "broken" - it just indicates that it may be repaired! To my ESL taste, this wording is reasonable and not offensive to anybody.
    Last edited by cerezha; 11-09-2012 at 08:28 PM. Reason: clarification, addition
    Серёжа, Sergey

  20. #120
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    I did some homework, asking a number of persons from various aspects of beekeeping from across the Nation... "How would you characterize ther state of beekeeping today?"
    It looks like the majority is not such optimistic as you.... sorry. Sergey
    Серёжа, Sergey

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