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  1. #81
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    i'm proud of ya'll!
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  2. #82
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joes_bees View Post
    Making me second guess a decision I'll be making next spring that many in my life already view as foolish.
    If you are talking about career decisions you should do what makes you happy as long as you have already attained the education (sheep skin). You can always fall back on your education to follow another path. No one can see things as you do. The only caution I will mention is you have to live with what you decide.
    I graduated in the 70's with a technical degree, oil embargo and the economy much the same as it is today. I feel for you but if you follow your passion you will be happy. If you follow someone else's passion you will regret it regardless of how successful you become.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by JD's Bees View Post
    The question was "Is Beekeeping broke?", to me that implies the people keeping bees and how they are operating. I don't see where the question was whether or not we need researchers and/or scientists....
    I guess the answer is in the post #1:
    "People may argue that science and technology have done a lot to hurt beekeeping, but please don't confuse gained knowledge with how people have chose to use it. (I'm not necessarily advocating wires and batteries in hives, just don't hate on research and ideas.)"
    Серёжа, Sergey

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joes_bees View Post
    I'd like to apologize ....
    Very nice! Thank you so much for giving an example of gracious handling of the situation. I really wish you the best! Sergey
    Серёжа, Sergey

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    I don't believe I ever wrote that "everything is good" or that everything is fine or okay....
    Mark, could you please clarify your position:

    Do you feel that beekeeping in its current state may be improved?

    If improvements necessary, do you feel that proper scientific approach could make a difference in your particular situation?

    Sergey
    Серёжа, Sergey

  6. #86
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    I believe that there is always room for improvement and that the use of science has it's value. I hope that is clear enough.

    Isn't there a Scientific Beekeeping Website?

    I don't know where the World would be w/ out Science. The PreHistoric Era perhaps? Certainly PreGrecoRoman Era.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  7. #87
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Isn't there a Scientific Beekeeping Website?
    Mark, today after thinking I come to idea that beekeeping is a craft and therefore, scientific approach is not applicable to it in many ways. So, I am greatly relieved - I don't need to worry about science at beesource AND I could keep bees as a hobby, which automatically prevents me from the bee-craft guild.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  8. #88
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    Jul 2012
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    St. Paul, MN
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    145

    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Thank you all for your kind words.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian View Post
    That said, and to the point of your topic, do you feel the same way still, or has your point of view changed? I don't agree with your initial assertion. I wish you would give beekeepers more credit for what we are accomplishing.
    After rereading the entire thread I would agree, I sound pretty morbid. It seems beekeeping is on a track of "breaking" and fixing, but I guess that's life and I should lighten up.

    The word "broke" was a poor choice for a title as it is very vague and caused a number of different topics to arise in this thread.

    Also the term beekeeping can be interpreted multiple ways as we've seen in this thread: the beekeeping industry, typical beekeeping practices, honeybees themselves, and I'm sure there were more.

    I apologized early on for a bad first post that wasn't worded well, unfortunately it was too late and this mess of a thread happened.

  9. #89
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Joes_bees View Post
    ... It seems beekeeping is on a track of "breaking" and fixing,...
    I think it IS broken and it needs to be fixed. It seems to me that many people are working hard in different directions trying to see what is the best approach for bees in our community in 21 century. It is obvious to me that 100+ years old bee-"technology" is outdated and needs to be corrected in the light of new challenges and new, more "natural" approaches in our life. There are many ideas already proposed and many tested successfully. But, I do not feel that bees are safe and protected in this country. These are just my personal thoughts, nothing personal and nothing age-related. Sergey
    Серёжа, Sergey

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    But, I do not feel that bees are safe and protected in this country.
    Heck, not even humans are "safe and protected on this country." The US kills about 35,000 people just in car accidents each year. And the PETA folks will say that not enough is being done to protect any animal species.

    I do expect that bees will be around long after humans learn to synthesize honey from corn.
    ultracrepidarian >> noting or pertaining to a person who criticizes, judges, or gives advice outside of his expertise

  11. #91
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    I think it IS broken and it needs to be fixed. It seems to me that many people are working hard in different directions trying to see what is the best approach for bees in our community in 21 century. It is obvious to me that 100+ years old bee-"technology" is outdated and needs to be corrected in the light of new challenges and new, more "natural" approaches in our life. There are many ideas already proposed and many tested successfully. But, I do not feel that bees are safe and protected in this country. These are just my personal thoughts, nothing personal and nothing age-related. Sergey
    It isn't broke. It is not any more broke than it has been in the past. What I think is needed is what I consider (probably incorrectly so) a Zen approach. Go w/ the flow. Deal w/ what is infront of you. Check your life attitude and get it straight. We live in a system of life, not outside of it. Personally I probably live more on the edge than any of y'all who don't pay bills from beekeeping. This isn't bragging, it's just what is. My life style is not extravagant, though my house is paid for. And, from where I sit things are good. There I did say it, things are good.

    Can they be better? Sure. But, compared to 6 or 7 years ago when colony collapse disorder hit and hit hard and I lost 80 percent of my hives and 33% of all colonies across the Nation died in one year things are on an upward/positive trend.

    I don't know what y'all are looking at. Shucks, odfrank, someone who has been on this Forum longer than many of y'all have owned bees is continually collecting more nad more swarms. Where are they coming from? Spontaneous generation?

    Beekeeping isn't broke. Y'all need and attitude adjustment and more actual experience beyond your own backyard.

    Rant over.

    ps: check out my Wrapping Up 2012 Thread and tell me beekeeping is broken. Peace
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  12. #92
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Withiut reading the entire thread, Which I am interested in doing I just don't have time to right now. I will add these thoughts.

    Is beekeeping broken? If in fact they could keep bees 100 years ago, produce honey and other products of the hive. What has changed about the bees to make that less possible today?

    I don' think the bees has changed. Man has changed. mans goals and expectations have changed.

    Look at what happens to the demand for profits when you go from a lone farmer trying to put food on a table to a business model that must support employees equipment and the other mountain of overhead involved. Yet it is still that same old bee being asked to make that sort of increase in demand.
    I think it is man, his goals and his expectations that have changed. and they have become completely unreasonable.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  13. #93
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    I think it is man, his goals and his expectations that have changed. and they have become completely unreasonable.

    Will some computer geek do a search and find examples of photos of apiarys in the Hudson Valley of NY showing home apiaries of 200 colonies. This was not as uncommon as youy might think. They were all over the place and across many States. Michigan comes to mind. If I knew where those early 20th century and late 19th century photos were and I could I would Post them myself.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  14. #94
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Will some computer geek do a search and find examples of photos of apiarys in the Hudson Valley of NY showing home apiaries of 200 colonies.
    What you seek may not have been uncommon, but photos are not so easy to find. The photos may be online, but images in photos are not indexable unless someone has taken the time to add tags. However, this site has some very interesting beekeeping short articles published in the 1800s. There are some photos, but not specifically what Mark asked for.

    http://agrariannation.blogspot.com/2...1867-1880.html

    A newspaper "retrospective" article:
    http://www.theithacajournal.com/arti...wned-beekeeper


    W.L. 'LaMar' Coggshall, of Groton, is pictured here in the early 20th century with his two sons in his beeyard. / PHOTO linked from the Ithaca Journal at the link above.

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Will some computer geek do ...
    Mark, I am assuming that term was meant as a compliment, and not an insult.


    And do you have a problem with icons, animated or otherwise?




    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 11-09-2012 at 06:51 AM.
    ultracrepidarian >> noting or pertaining to a person who criticizes, judges, or gives advice outside of his expertise

  15. #95
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    On the issue of the elderly, aged or older. I clearly see in effect. IF you are insulted by my opinion that is your responsibility. I accept that I insulted only if I write with intent to insult. otherwise you are to synsative.

    We are born, we then spend several years in a period of hyper learning about anything and everything we know about the world. But there is a point that we no longer learn as readily. It is now time to act upon what we know and we become more and more absorbed with the decisions and thought processes needed to act than to learn. This in effect results in an increased reluctance to change.

    An example: I got my first banking account about the time Automatic Tellers came into existence. For me they where the norm and I never had any issue in using them. But for my parents. Who at that time where hardly elderly. Had some degree of reluctance and difficulty in getting used to them. While my grand parents had almost a reaction of fear at using them.

    Today My grandparents are now gone and my parents are elderly. They neither one have accepted the use of a computer to much degree at all. They both have e-mail accounts and own a computer. but they know nothing about forums or any sort of public interaction of any kind. It is clear to me that they both are aware of a vulnerability they have to unknown threats.

    Recency my mother has chosen to get involved in public service. this will require she has a fairly rounded ability to use a computer. It is a completely alien world to her but I am weekly giving her lessons on how to use a computer. understanding the language. understanding the difference in facebook, you tube, forums. web sites etc. I am finding that it is such a radical change in social concepts that she really does not have anything in her life experience to relate it to. She has never really communicated with pictures and video. She has never really lived in the reality of being able to copy and past verbatim something someone wrote or said. She has a very real issue with this whole trailing of of a conversation about something nobody really said anyway. Such as, did Ace really insult anyone? No someone got insulted. but now the conversation is controlled by the issue of how insulting Ace is. Net result, the sensitive little child is disrupting the conversation. Grow a pair and move on.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  16. #96

    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Earlier this year my neighbor was found dead at his computer. His browser still opened to one of the blogs he frequented. He was 95.
    He was also a facebook friend.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  17. #97
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Withiut reading the entire thread, Which I am interested in doing I just don't have time to right now.
    But you do have time to share your thoughts on the discussion, even though you don't know the full context of that discussion.

    Huh.
    ultracrepidarian >> noting or pertaining to a person who criticizes, judges, or gives advice outside of his expertise

  18. #98
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    What you seek may not have been uncommon, but photos are not so easy to find. The photos may be online, but images in photos are not indexable unless someone has taken the time to add tags. However, this site has some very interesting beekeeping short articles published in the 1800s. There are some photos, but not specifically what Mark asked for.

    http://agrariannation.blogspot.com/2...1867-1880.html

    A newspaper "retrospective" article:
    http://www.theithacajournal.com/arti...wned-beekeeper


    W.L. 'LaMar' Coggshall, of Groton, is pictured here in the early 20th century with his two sons in his beeyard. / PHOTO linked from the Ithaca Journal at the link above.


    Mark, I am assuming that term was meant as a compliment, and not an insult.


    And do you have a problem with icons, animated or otherwise?




    I used the term geek w/ all the love in my heart that I could muster. I could have used expert, but geek is what came to mind.

    I only know how to make two icons. and I have nothing against any other icons animated or otherwise.

    Thank you, I knew someone could do what I can't. What do I owe you. I like to pay people to do what I can't.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  19. #99
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    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Grow a pair and move on.

    Who are you talking to?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  20. #100

    Default Re: Is Beekeeping broke?

    What a different time! The guy and his kids are all dressed up....lookin' ready for church...and he's workin' his hives. Do you think they may have really been just posing for a photo....a pretty rare thing in those days?
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

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