PF 100s Black vs Natural

[sfisher]

Can't decide what color to get, I want black because they will be used for brood. But I read somewhere were someone had trouble with them warping when in the sun. They will be cut out of the frame and installed in wooden frames like this.

2012-10-07 15.23.35.jpg

Is it better to get black for brood frames, does it help to see the eggs that much more? Steve

[crofter]

I find it immensely easier to see eggs in the black comb than in fresh light coloured comb. After a few rounds they will all darken up somewhat. I never had any occasion to have them out in the sun but I suppose could be cleaning up wet honey supers. Once you have the 100s foundation in wooden comb I think the worst warping source is gone. Incidentally a band saw is much easier to cut the original panels out with rather than table saw.

[AmericasBeekeeper]

It is easier to see eggs on black. There is also a slight advantage noticed because black does not reflect light around the hive. Beehives are dark by nature inside. Makes you think how bees communicate with the waggle dance, but that is another story.

[cg3]

Go with black. I originally got black for brood boxes and white for honey supers. Now I've ended up with a mix. Doesn't seem to bother the bees but it bothers me.

[sfisher]

cg3 what bothers you about them?

[cg3]

Really, it's no big deal. It just looks like a jumble.

[Gus979]

I'm afraid to open this can of worms but I'm curious- how would you compare the 100s with foundationless? From what I understand most plastics are not small cell size

[Michael B]

I have used these frames in natural and in black. I purchased hundreds of the natural and a few dozen of the black. I found an obvious preferece fro the natural. Some hives will just ignone the black all together. Dont know why.....but my bees dont like the black.

[Riskybizz]

Fisher

I use both, but much prefer the black. If you coat them with additional wax you'll be glad you purchased the black because you can easily see it. I have never noticed a difference with bees preferring one color over the other, but I will agree that some hives are more reluctant to draw foundation than others, but that has nothing to do with the color of the foundation.

[snl]

Just my observation........Wax on black combs will melt quicker if placed in the sun while examining hives, so keep it in the shade as much as possible.........I do like the black for seeing eggs in the BC, but if I just see larva & capped brood, I'm mostly happy........

[sfisher]

Risky or anyone else, what is the easyist way you have found to put the wax on the frames? I have heard brush and roller, I only have a hundred frames to do and will probably do them in batches of 25.

[Adrian Quiney WI]

sfisher I wax frames in my shed. I use one of these, but don't use the valve. http://www.prestopotwaxmelter.com/
I use a 4 inch paintbrush and just paint the wax on quickly, it doesn't need to be perfect just so there is a visible coat in the top center of both sides of the frame. The hot wax makes the frame bow a little - which initially made me nervous and is one reason I do the operation quickly. The pot melts the wax very quickly, a few minutes, on its lowest setting.

[snl]

http://www.prestopotwaxmelter.com/

You can get one of these w/o the spout at Walmart for about $22. Put the setting on warm, use a 4" foam roller and have at it ............quick and easy to cover the entire frame. I've never had it bow, but I use all plastic frames......
You only need the spout if you're making candles as it's easy to move the wax into the pour pot from the spout.

[Adrian Quiney WI]

snl, I forgot to mention I initially bought mine for candles, but have never made any.

[Riskybizz]

I have tried different types of application but finally settled on the 4" foam roller. As mentioned, don't get the wax too hot, just keep it workable. The foam roller applies a nice even layer over the plastic foundation. You don't have to coat every cell.

[Solomon Parker]

I recommend the white (wax colored, yellow, whatever, depends on the vintage). If you lean the black ones against the hive while doing and inspection in the sun, they can rapidly get hot enough to kill brood and melt wax. I've had it happen. I have 98 black ones and 210 "natural" ones.

[Riskybizz]

Now that sounds like a 'rookie" management mistake to me.

[Solomon Parker]

Why is that?

[Riskybizz]

Not to change the subject here but this past summer was my last using the Mann Lake PF series small cell plastic frames. The ones currently on my hives I will continue to manage, but the rest of them that I have in several cases are being cut out and placed in conventional wooden frames. I liked Barry's idea in his thread. I tried it last weekend using a jig-saw to easily cut out the foundation and toss the plastic frame. I like the small cell but not the frame itself because it is problematic. I think I have 4-5 cases left so this will require working a few winter days in the shop to get them switched over. My issue with them (as previously stated) is that the bees love to build burr comb and or brace comb between the bottom bar of one super and the top bar of the other. In my experience they always do it. I know that there are several schools of thought as to why they do this but they DO do it and for me it’s too time consuming to try to correct. The bottom line is that they don't do it with standard wooden frames so for me its case closed. I will go out on a limb here and predict that Mann Lake will eventually start to sell the same small cell foundation used in their PF series to assemble into wooden frames; to me that just makes sense. Going into a bee yard during a honey flow opening up colonies and having to scrape all that wax and honey off the bottom and top bars of plastic frames is not my idea of being productive. In my experience, if you don't do that and place the supers back together you will kill lots of bees in the process. They get squished. As far as my comment about the management issues, my point was simply that you can avoid putting brood comb in the sun when inspecting colonies. During the summer here when I have boxes of comb on my truck and it’s over 100 degrees I don't park it in the sun, I leave the truck in the shade, or cover it with a tarp. That’s a management issue not a problem with the equipment.

[Solomon Parker]

It's an extra thing to have to avoid, even on a mild day. Something to keep in mind if you are investing your hard earned money in a product.