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  1. #161
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    4,581

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    thanks!
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  2. #162
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,641

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    ...but be sure not to tell anyone...we are trying to be secretive about this you know.

    deknow

  3. #163
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,581

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    my fingers are tied!
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  4. #164
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    671

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    deknow

    Les is a close associate her in N.M. I had no idea he had a pesitcide kill-off he never mentioned it. Roundup-up in an organic orchard ?? I have never heard of such a thing. I knew he lost a lost of bees last winter but this is certainly news to me.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  5. #165
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,905

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    ...but be sure not to tell anyone...we are trying to be secretive about this you know.

    deknow

    But we know about the club house!

    Seriously, what role do you ascribe to geographical location? My conclusion is that TF is easier to accomplish in some locals and that stocks are not yet commercially available that can survive everywhere. I recognize that you have speakers at your conference from all over - what are your thoughts on the conditions needed (or desirable) to succeed in TF beekeeping? (Success in this instance meaning that the bees over winter, thrive, and produce surplus honey for the beekeeper to harvest)
    Master Beekeeper (EAS) and Master Gardener (U Maine CE) www.beeberrywoods.com

  6. #166
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Bees aren't meant to survive everywhere. Hives are not meant to move. They're meant to survive in one place.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  7. #167

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    didn't know you had a book dean. where can i find info about the book...?
    @Dean
    just a suggestion since I too didnt know about your book until you mentioned it in this thread. Can you maybe link to the book in your signature? This will reach many much sooner.

    Just a thought.

    Kind regards

  8. #168
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,905

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    Bees aren't meant to survive everywhere. Hives are not meant to move. They're meant to survive in one place.
    Ouch. There is plain speaking going on in this thread.
    Master Beekeeper (EAS) and Master Gardener (U Maine CE) www.beeberrywoods.com

  9. #169
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,641

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    ...but you can't have bees.

    Don't you oppress me!

    You can't have bees....you haven't got a bloom!

    ....with apologies to Monte python and the people's liberation front

  10. #170
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Auckland,Auckland,New Zealand
    Posts
    5,999

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    .....if you ask people who buy honey if they think that most bees are fed sugar and hfcs and that most bees are medicated, you will invariably get the answers of "what?" And "how do you medicate a bee?" To the customers, most assume that all bees are treatment free.
    Negative advertising is always bad for an industry as a whole.
    44 years, been commercial, outfits up to 4000 hives, now 120 hives and 200 nucs as a hobby, selling bees. T (mostly).

  11. #171
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,905

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    Hives are not meant to move. They're meant to survive in one place.
    I've been thinking about this. At least 50,000 colonies come in to my area each spring for Blueberry pollination. Some drops are within a few miles of my place. Granted pollination by native pollinators has taken place for thousands of years but it has been shown convincingly that imported honey bees increase the set and the resultant crop size. Many of the fields near me are being cleared of rocks to make it easier for mechanical picking and pruning devices to operate while reducing native pollinator habitat. And the fields and plants are sprayed with all sorts of herbicides, insecticides and fungicides that make life tough for surviving native pollinators.

    So while I can certainly see that it may be best for honey bees that colonies live out their lives in one location, the reality is that there are many people who rely on income produced with the help of migratory honey bees. That isn't going to end tomorrow. And some primarily honey producers chase the bloom too.

    Solomon - are you saying that migratory pollination, and the practice of following the bloom for honey production are practices that are bad for honey bees and should be stopped?
    Master Beekeeper (EAS) and Master Gardener (U Maine CE) www.beeberrywoods.com

  12. #172
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    166

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    I'll bite.

    It should be stopped. We are taking everything the land can produce. And when it can't produce any more we pour junk on it to take away any natural competition from the crop we are trying to maximize. It is not sustainable. Eventually something will collapse (CCD?) and there will be nothing. At least for a while. Nature will repair herself after we are gone. In the mean time what happens to those who are left? I think this is way more problematic for our future than Global Warming.
    If you think about it, we humans are in a hive. And it has contaminated wax in it, and we are treated with antibiotics, and there are Varroa and beatles. But we cannot change and we work like the worker bee until the hive is gone.
    Unless we change, it's over. Maybe not in our lifetime, but in the next 200 years, there will be a collapse.

    But hey, that is not our problem, right?

  13. #173
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    3,641

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldtimer View Post
    Negative advertising is always bad for an industry as a whole.
    ...and the industry is best served by having customers be misinformed?

  14. #174
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    3,641

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    I would recommend reading this thread:
    http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...ekeepers/page3

    ....lots of specifics of some of the bad practices (in your back yard, andrew) from reputable sources...as well as discussion on the market aspects.

    Remember, "the industry" wants honey to remain a commidity...all things labeled "honey" of equal value. Who benefits? Well, if there is a consumer perception that honey is "pure", and you can buy cheap imported or domestic "honey" produced with low labor costs and questionable practices (ie. honey supers on with full HFCS feeders on top in the blueberries) and sell it as "pure honey" to a trusting american consumer, then you win big...this is the packing and importing end of the industry, as well as some of the larger domestic operations with "low labor costs".

    Beekeepers with higher costs and a higher quality product (via testing, practices, etc) can't compete in a commiditized system...Imagine you are still in school, and you are taking a class. At the end of the semester, the teacher asks the class if they would rather have the entire class graded on a pass/fail basis, or with letter grades. If you are getting an A, you want letter grades (why would you want to get the same "pass" as someone who deserves a C-?)......If you are getting a C-, you are going to want a "pass". The lower the quality honey you are selling, the bigger the incentive to have all honey considered equal.

    deknow

  15. #175
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Dewey View Post
    are you saying that migratory pollination, and the practice of following the bloom for honey production are practices that are bad for honey bees and should be stopped?
    What I am saying is that I hold out hope, but I do not believe bees can survive when moved much. When I moved my bees here from Oregon, all but one of the hives died within two years when they had already survived for five. I have nothing to say about it needing to be stopped.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  16. #176
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    ...and the industry is best served by having customers be misinformed?
    Aren't all industries? Success is defined as profit remember?
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  17. #177
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    9,556

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Dewey View Post
    what role do you ascribe to geographical location?
    I believe the honeybee can survive in most locations but not at the populations that we as humans desire. We steal from them so our definition of survival is related to producing something for us. We consider some of what they harvest as surplus. Is that what our grain bins are or is it mostly stored food that we know we will need later?
    Suppose a super being took over the earth and saw all the food stores we have that they could use to fuel their space ships. They look at all the fat Americans and others around the world and decide that they could skim 30% of our stores. Of course the weak would die and everybody left would slim down some. Then the space being thinks well maybe they could live on less if we injected them with this protein substitute. So they take another 5%. Along comes a drought, flood or fire (natural occurrence) and the stores are wiped out that year so the human population in that area crashes. So now the supper beings have to collect a few humans from the areas that survived and start over in the stricken area to rebuild the population so they can make more stores.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  18. #178
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,594

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DFKqgWuCBA

    Just a video of Michael Bush I came across that I thought was a really good watch. Pretty much everything that's always being said here only being said on video by Bush.
    The above, is the original posting.
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  19. #179
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    166

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCurious View Post
    The above, is the original posting.
    We'll get back around to it!

  20. #180
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,219

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    Bees aren't meant to survive everywhere. Hives are not meant to move. They're meant to survive in one place.
    Then how in the world did you get to be a beekeeper. Not only were bees moved across an Ocean, but didn't you move your bees from where you bought them? Or do they sit where you collected the swarms?

    Too simplistic Solomon. Besides, who "meant" what?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

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