M Bush on Treatment-Free

[Solomon Parker]

So you expect to have to split to stay ahead of the mite load if you went treatment free? Do you have an example of someone who does that to follow?

[squarepeg]

i don't blame you jim. do you think that moving them imposes any additional stress to the colonies?

[jim lyon]

Unless its a 3 day haul and or excess heat or cold is involved or you have massive confusion in a holding yard the act of moving in and of itself is fairly benign. We just moved a load of 800 hives and had them back out on location within 36 hours of loading and the bees are already finding a little fresh pollen on the first day they were set down.
No Sol I know of no one that has tried what I am suggesting only what my recent experience tells me imay be doable. Bear in mind we are replacing ALL our queens on a yearly basis and foregoing any spring mite treatments.

[squarepeg]

understood jim, thanks.

[d.frizzell]

bbrowncods,
I do wish you the best in your TF beekeeping ventures, you have found Michael Bush's website so you are on the right track - lots of links to others from there too. (Dee Lusby!!) I have Michael's book. Excellent!!
Donna

[TWall]

"Treatment-free treatments," that's a quote. Somebody actually posted looking for information on treatment-free treatments.

Sol,

I made that quote in this thread I started: http://www.beesource.com/forums/show...ite-Treatments

I probably could have worded it better. But, this coming on the heels of you taking over the moderation of this forming and your narrowing the definition of treatment free I wrote it as I did. The thread ended up with some good discussion and some suggestions.

When you opened the discussion on what treatment free means I had brought up the point that not all treatments are chemical, there are cultural practices that are also treatments as was brought out in the above thread.

While I may be taking you comment above out of context, I do not take it as someone who is opened-minded and trying to understand someone elses opinion or viewpoint.

Tom

[squarepeg]

cool thread t, thanks for posting the link. what did you end up doing, and how did that hive turn out?

[Solomon Parker]

your narrowing the definition of treatment free

I didn't do any such thing. I was a proponent of it, I oversaw the creation of a definition, but the definition was voted on by the users of this forum. It was done totally democratically and what wasn't done democratically was written and/or approved by the owner of the website.

Tell me exactly how am I supposed to understand someone's viewpoint when what they are asking for is a literal oxymoron? It doesn't even matter what the words are. It's like asking for a glass of dehydrated water. Furthermore, I will admit to this. As it pertains to treatments, I am not open minded. I have one point of view. I live what I believe. I will not be convinced to change that. And I will do what I can to keep the name of what I do from being muddied up and turned meaningless like the word "organic" has been. You can have "organic," I'm keeping "Treatment-free."

[squarepeg]

the definition was voted on by the users of this forum

interesting, i didn't know that sol, i guess it was before my time.

was the vote cast by the users of the just the tfb forum, or the users at large of beesource?

if the tfb forum was created as you say, to create a place where like minded folks could discuss what they are doing without interference from others, i guess it makes sense to have a definition and these rules.

maybe you should consider a special password too, given only to those who agree with the definition and promise to abide by the rules.

[wadehump]

I pulled 10 med supers total for the year in early june didnt pull any more due to the very dry weather we had all summer left all the rest for the bees did move a few supers from some heavy hives to some of the swarms that did not build up due to the dry weather

[julysun]

"maybe you should consider a special password too, given only to those who agree with the definition and promise to abide by the rules." Squarepeg

A fine suggestion!

[Solomon Parker]

was the vote cast by the users of the just the tfb forum, or the users at large of beesource?

Whoever deigned to appear was allowed to vote. You can go back in the archives and see for yourself, all the votes were open and voters recorded.

maybe you should consider a special password too, given only to those who agree with the definition and promise to abide by the rules.

I'm going to reserve an opinion on that one. Anyway, it's not my problem anymore.

[bevy's honeybees]

I watched the video (thank you) and have followed Michael Bush practices beginning a few months after I became a beekeeper.

I still feel a little thrown off at times from local beekeepers with years of experience. This coincidently happened the day before I saw this thread and now had the opportunity to read the whole thread.

I'm at 3 1/2 years with my hives. I was told early this week that the problems with varroa will begin in hive's 4th year. He talked about all the chemicals coming into the hive even without my adding more, and that treating for varroa is the best thing for them.

I am not going to treat, and this thread and video put my mind at ease that I am not abusing my hives by NOT treating. I don't put chemicals in my hives and the only time I feed is in hives that need to build comb. I leave them plenty of stores and keep one hive with back up stores just in case. I only use smoke when absolutely necessary.
Thanks.

[squarepeg]

bevy, i have read that too, about the fourth year. i'm not sure where that came from, or why that would be the case. good work on keeping your bees healthy!

m bush is one of my all time beekeeping heroes. it was really neat to be able to put a face and a voice with the name and all of the pearls of wisdom.

[bbrowncods]

Thanks Donna. I am looking forward to it and getting M. Bush's book.

Brad

[Cris]

Didn't mean to imply that taking antibiotics aided in developing resistance to malaria. It's just what I have to do to keep from catching it, living in an active area.
I am not sure that a genetic blood disorder would be classified as developing a resistance... again, I am not a doctor or biologist.

Malaria is actually caused by a parasite that is spread by mosquitoes - the interesting thing is that you're only symptomatic when the parasite larva are migrating through your blood from one organ system to another. This means you can actually be a carrier for years with only cyclical flare ups. It offers some resistance because should the parasite infect a sickled cell, becuase of its flaw it is more likely break apart and die before the bugs can reproduce. (I was in Iraq, although we were a lot more worried about leishmaniasis than malaria).

[Solomon Parker]

I was told early this week that the problems with varroa will begin in hive's 4th year.

It sounds like someone was trying to sell you on treating. If it's your first year, they'll die in your second year. If it's your second year, they'll die in your third year and so on. If there is any evidence for a specific year, I'd say it would be the second year. Bad percentages in first winter for a package too, in my humble experience.

[Acebird]

For a new person looking at starting beekeeping it is very confusing what is out there in the literature, internet, and forums.

Yuup

For me I learn by questioning.

So do I

one needs to be able to stand up and defend it - prove to me why your way is better.

Nope, this is a forum

but if you are writing about it and sharing what you do, then when I ask, you should be able to answer.

Nope, that is a personal choice

We have the medicines and treatments, and they work for humans, and livestock, etc. Why not bees?

You should dig deeper into this though.

TFB is bucking

Not to people that are treatment free. To them it is natural and makes sense. To argue with somebody why they are treatment free is bucking. To ask and learn how they do it is the reason for this forum. If you need proof, you got a lot of work ahead of you.

[bbrowncods]

Ace,
It is a forum. I look at it like we are sitting in a room and talking about bees. If you say something and I look at you and ask you a question about what you said, then you ought to answer. I guess you don't have too, but then people will quit speaking to you because you are there to say what YOU want, and not participate in a group conversation.
You agreed that a form of learning is by asking questions. Some questions are asking someone to substantiate what they are saying is fact. Proof. That's all it is. Not trying to put anyone against a wall and say "I got you"; just trying to see how you do it, and is this something I can try. Or maybe I have tried it and can tell you where the pitfalls are so you don't fall into one. Or it might be that it didn't work for me. In the end you can do what you want. I don't call that arguing.

You're right, to be here is a personal choice - free to leave at any time.

Not to people that are treatment free. To them it is natural and makes sense. To argue with somebody why they are treatment free is bucking. To ask and learn how they do it is the reason for this forum. If you need proof, you got a lot of work ahead of you.

It is still bucking the system. In Virginia there is a certification program. Study what they teach in order to pass the practical and written tests. I doubt if anyone would be allowed to pass that doesn't subscribe to the established treatments. Maybe they would, but that is not what I read in the study questions.
I do have a lot of work. Because this is like being pregnant, either you are or your not, there is no grey area. But when I get my bees I will know as much as I can, and go into this with both eyes wide open, knowing who to trust and who just has an agenda.

[Acebird]

In Virginia there is a certification program.

Certification for what?