Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 210
  1. #81
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    54

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Amen!!

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by d.frizzell View Post
    Goodness, can this forum talk about treatment free beekeeping for a change...there is a lot of knowledge out there and many want to share it, but they always seem to have to defend themselves because they are actually making it work...sorry but all this is getting really old...and some of us are here to learn about treatment free beekeeping and those of you who only want to whine and complain about how difficult it is should just "listen" for a change...there are some great topics on this forum...this is not one of them.
    Perhaps you should start a thread.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    1,996

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    We keep bees in an area with plenty of beekeepers, all of whom feed and treat. We don't feed and we don't treat....
    Deknow,

    Do you feed if the bees have a particularly hard season and are short on stores? Do you never feed anything, or do you only feed in emergency/starvation situations?

    Thanks,

    Adam

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    166

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    I am glad this thread has brought out these views.

    For a new person looking at starting beekeeping it is very confusing what is out there in the literature, internet, and forums. For me I learn by questioning. I question like I am on the outside looking in. No matter what the philosophy is, one needs to be able to stand up and defend it - prove to me why your way is better. That is where the "successful" definition comes in (however you want to measure it).
    Now some may say they have nothing to prove to me and don't have to defend what they do or say. That is fine and you absolutely have that right, but if you are writing about it and sharing what you do, then when I ask, you should be able to answer.
    My request to have whose share who have hives that are treatment free for 3-5 years is a genuine desire to guage who/how many are out there. Deepdown I want to believe that TFB is the way to go, but I have doubts. Why? Because we don't live that way. What I am learning is that we are trying to domesticate an undomesticateable (is that a word) insect. That is a tough mind shift to make. We have the medicines and treatments, and they work for humans, and livestock, etc. Why not bees?

    Defending what one does is never fun. But sometimes it is neccessary, especially if you are bucking the status quo. And guess what? TFB is bucking!
    Last edited by bbrowncods; 11-08-2012 at 01:56 AM. Reason: run on sentence

  5. #85

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by d.frizzell View Post
    Goodness, can this forum talk about treatment free beekeeping for a change...there is a lot of knowledge out there and many want to share it, but they always seem to have to defend themselves because they are actually making it work...sorry but all this is getting really old...and some of us are here to learn about treatment free beekeeping and those of you who only want to whine and complain about how difficult it is should just "listen" for a change...there are some great topics on this forum...this is not one of them.
    I love your talking alot. Hear hear!

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    54

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    Perhaps you should start a thread.
    I have and got excellent answers...and will again....

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    54

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Question, yes of course we must ask question, I agree BUT
    Proof? If you go back and read all the wealth of excellent information posted by experienced (and successful) TFB on this forum and others I think the proof is simply there. If they are not treating and their bees are doing well.. is that not proof that it does work?
    Defend? Why? It's works! healthy, happy bees!!YEAH!!
    With all due respect I think you are looking for proof that it doesn't work.
    For me, I can see that it is working, I am hungry for information, so tell me how, show me how, if it works for you, it can work for me! I know it is not easy, I know there will be some failures, but I WANT to be there! I refuse to use chemicals on my bees or my garden - and my garden grows.
    TFB is bucking? Maybe so, who cares? If it doesn't work, why are there so many TFB out there?
    Donna
    Nova Scotia

    Quote Originally Posted by bbrowncods View Post
    I am glad this thread has brought out these views.

    For a new person looking at starting beekeeping it is very confusing what is out there in the literature, internet, and forums. For me I learn by questioning. I question like I am on the outside looking in. No matter what the philosophy is, one needs to be able to stand up and defend it - prove to me why your way is better. That is where the "successful" definition comes in (however you want to measure it).
    Now some may say they have nothing to prove to me and don't have to defend what they do or say. That is fine and you absolutely have that right, but if you are writing about it and sharing what you do, then when I ask, you should be able to answer.
    My request to have whose share who have hives that are treatment free for 3-5 years is a genuine desire to guage who/how many are out there. Deepdown I want to believe that TFB is the way to go, but I have doubts. Why? Because we don't live that way. What I am learning is that we are trying to domesticate an undomesticateable (is that a word) insect. That is a tough mind shift to make. We have the medicines and treatments, and they work for humans, and livestock, etc. Why not bees?

    Defending what one does is never fun. But sometimes it is neccessary, especially if you are bucking the status quo. And guess what? TFB is bucking!

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,928

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    bbrowncods,

    i think it's important to understand that treatment free beekeeping goes way beyond just not putting chemicals into the hive.

    there are a lot of facets to keeping bees healthy, and a lot of variations on the theme.

    if you haven't already, check out michael bush's website or order his book. spend some time reading what randy oliver's work has shown. be prepared to learn from your own experiences, (read here mistakes).

    from what i have seen myself, it is very possible to achieve maintaining healthy colonies that don't require, or rarely require, a treatment intervention. especially for the hobbiest who has the time to invest in each individual hive.

    as i have said, i view not using treatments as the end result of good solid beekeeping practices, rather than a means to that end. there are other views of course.....
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,276

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    bbrowncods,

    if you haven't already, check out michael bush's website or order his book. spend some time reading what randy oliver's work has shown. be prepared to learn from your own experiences, (read here mistakes).
    If I had bbrowncod's APO I could send him and his buddys back issues of Bee Culture and American Bee Journal. Maybe I will send some to a CAV Unit Commander in Afghanistan who I send honey to.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  10. #90
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,928

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    that's awesome mark.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  11. #91
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Calgary, Alberta, CA
    Posts
    78

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by d.frizzell View Post
    If they are not treating and their bees are doing well.. is that not proof that it does work?
    It's a start, but any hive can survive for 2 years, or a bit more without treatment. That is roughly the amount of time it takes Varroa to kill a hive.

    The scores of people that say "I'm a first year no treatment beekeeper and my bees are doing well" are only creating noise that muddies the equation. It's really too early to tell.

    Given that a lot of "no treatment" beekeepers inadvertently buy pre-treated hives, I suggest that a hive would need to go untreated for at least 2 years, and probably 3 before it could be considered a successful example of no treatment.

  12. #92
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,276

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    that's awesome mark.
    Just tryin' to help.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  13. #93
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by bbrowncods View Post
    We have the medicines and treatments, and they work for humans, and livestock, etc. Why not bees?
    Bees are hive minded insects, with a very short lifespan and and an incredible propensity for adaptation. Just like a cow. That's the thing though. Nobody is breeding for wolf resistant sheep because they're too busy breeding for fat heavy wooly sheep. Natural sheep are wolf resistant. So are wildebeests and water buffalo and other animals similar to the domesticated ones. I think of treatments kind of like caffeine. At first, it works, gives you a boost. But use it every day and in a month, you'll need it just to be able to meet the level you had naturally before you started using it. Go off and you'll crash for a while, but eventually you'll be back to your norm. It's better just to stay off. Caffeine is much more innocuous than an antibiotic.


    Quote Originally Posted by squarepeg View Post
    there are a lot of facets to keeping bees healthy, and a lot of variations on the theme.
    All of which should be handled by the bees and their flora and fauna. That's the fundamental difference.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  14. #94
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    166

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Donna,
    First, I am just a novice. Four years ago I was going to start but found out that my city did not allow apiaries in the city limits. Then in 2011 they rescended the law, but I knew I was going to be deployed in 2012. So I have been on again off again for 3-4 years now. I am at the point of making some critical decisions now that I am going to be returning in February. So here we go.
    Quote Originally Posted by d.frizzell View Post
    Question, yes of course we must ask question, I agree BUT
    Proof? If you go back and read all the wealth of excellent information posted by experienced (and successful) TFB on this forum and others I think the proof is simply there. If they are not treating and their bees are doing well.. is that not proof that it does work?
    Defend? Why? It's works! healthy, happy bees!!YEAH!!
    This can be said of treated hives as well. There are even more of those out there and the information/industry behind them is well established. TFB flies in the face of that jugernaught. There are those who are not doing well, no matter where you look. So which path is the right path? As a novice you have to sift through the rubble and find nuggets.

    Quote Originally Posted by d.frizzell View Post
    With all due respect I think you are looking for proof that it doesn't work.
    For me, I can see that it is working, I am hungry for information, so tell me how, show me how, if it works for you, it can work for me! I know it is not easy, I know there will be some failures, but I WANT to be there! I refuse to use chemicals on my bees or my garden - and my garden grows.
    I look for the cracks in the logic. I do that by asking pointed questions of those who are saying "My way works". Because everyone says there way works, you have to figure out who has been doing it more than a year or two. Then establish what they are doing that makes their operation work for them so that I can replicate it. It is called learning form others mistakes so I don't have to start from scratch. I am sure I will make enough mistakes without having to start from ground zero.

    Quote Originally Posted by d.frizzell View Post
    TFB is bucking? Maybe so, who cares? If it doesn't work, why are there so many TFB out there?
    Donna
    Nova Scotia
    Back at you. If it doesn't work, why are there so many treated hives out there?
    Don't answer that. Do you see my point?
    Last edited by bbrowncods; 11-08-2012 at 10:05 AM.

  15. #95
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    166

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    If I had bbrowncod's APO I could send him and his buddys back issues of Bee Culture and American Bee Journal. Maybe I will send some to a CAV Unit Commander in Afghanistan who I send honey to.

    Thank you! That would be nice. I was going to subscribe when I got back.

    I have read MB's site. Twice! I am ordering his book once I decide either the hardback or the volumes.

    When I listened to his video (post #1) it really through me for a loop. Hence this 90 post thread! He doesn't come across as hard core on his website as he did in the video (at least to me). Maybe I just didn't grasp it until I heard him say it!

    So it has been quite a leap for me from what the main stream teaches. I have been studing the Virginia Master Beekeeper Program and it is all about treating. So imagine my surprise when I start coming across those who eschew that philosophy.

  16. #96
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,928

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by Solomon Parker View Post
    All of which should be handled by the bees and their flora and fauna. That's the fundamental difference.
    the facets i had in mind are those the bees, flora, and fauna don't handle.

    i.e. the type of artificial housing we choose to put them into, the frame manipulations we choose to do, the taking and giving of resources we choose to do, the altered diet we may choose to put them on, ect.

    i don't think we give enough consideration to these extrinsic factors and what effect they may have on the colony. it is why i don't think it's prudent to compare our kept colonies to feral ones, and why i think it is in some ways unfair to ask them to 'handle on their own' some of the challenges that may come along from time to time.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  17. #97
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    I have long been on the fence about whether a treatment-free migratory commercial bee could exist. I hold out hope, but I'm still on the fence.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  18. #98
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,928

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    good point.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  19. #99
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Norfolk, VA
    Posts
    166

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Just tryin' to help.
    Your inbox is full.

  20. #100
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,624

    Default Re: M Bush on Treatment-Free

    There is nothing mutually exclusive about moving bees and being treatment free. Heck we could easily do it but choose instead to reduce fall mite loads when the bees are brood less so that we have plenty of strong bees coming out of the winter for Almond pollination and The following seasons honey crop tests free of any mite treatment residues.We aren't doing anything radically different than those who constantly split their bees to stay ahead of the mite load. If we did that long term chances are we would have trouble maintaining our number of strong hives but then I really don't know that for sure.

Page 5 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads