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  1. #61
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    6,588

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    This to me doesn't make scientific sense. If you encapsulate the spores you have essentially sterilized it.
    Uhh, what about when you accidentally strike the interior of the contaminated hive body with your hive tool and ding or gouge it? How well is that encapsulation going to work at that point?

    Got to have me an animated icon!
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    10,020

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    I don't believe it would have any significant difference at all, even if you did it once a day.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,588

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I don't believe it would have any significant difference at all, even if you did it once a day.
    Are you saying that with your scientist's hat on? Have you run studies? No?
    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    This to me doesn't make scientific sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    A sterilized rubber glove does not kill the germs on your hands but prevents the transmission of the germs to someone else.
    Perhaps you wouldn't mind having a surgeon operate on you with holes in his latex gloves?
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,722

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I don't believe it would have any significant difference at all, even if you did it once a day.
    And how about the sterilized glove ? Would being in contact with deadly germs be OK once a day?
    BeeCurious
    5 hives and 8 nucs................... Trying to think inside the box...

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,084

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    I believe surgeons still wash their hands thoroughly before putting on gloves and some times more than one pair of gloves.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  6. #66
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    10,020

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Perhaps you wouldn't mind having a surgeon operate on you with holes in his latex gloves?
    If it is a choice of dying without the surgery I would.
    I don't know why I try to educate you, sometimes I think it can't be done. Not every surgery is done in a nice clean operating room. Sometimes equipment is use from one patient to the next without sterilization between uses. Emergency surgery on the battle field is quite different than what you might expect.

    Would being in contact with deadly germs be OK once a day?
    You are making an assumption that this would be the same. If you ding the box with the hive tool the spores are still encapsulated. A few spores might transfer to the hive tool but there could be a few there already. So I am not following your line of reasoning.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,588

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    I don't know why I try to educate you, sometimes I think it can't be done.
    Ace is expanding his alleged skill levels. First it was a "highly skilled carpenter / engineer." Just today he has also expanded into "scientist", then "surgeon" and now Ace is an educator. I can hardly wait til he claims to be an English teacher.

    I am most honored that Ace takes time out his busy day to try educate little old me. But much like some of his other endeavors, Ace's venture into my education is going to fall short. I will be the smart-ass student in the back row correcting the teacher when he makes an error.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Menomonee Falls, Wis.
    Posts
    2,783

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    We annually scrap the insides of our supers to remove any build up of propolis and wax. We use a 2 inch wide paint scraper, and it leaves a 2 inch wide swatch of exposed wood. That sounds significant.

    Does anyone know the spore level threshold for expression of clinical symptoms?

    Crazy Roland

  9. #69
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    DFW area, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,125

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    I'm thinking that its an acceptable risk to have encapsulated spores in a hive (your hive of course, not mine ).....until the hive bodies and supers are no longer serviceable. About that time, the viable spores could see the light of day again as the wood disintegrates. It should be burned before that point.
    LeeB
    I try to learn from my mistakes, and from yours when you give me a heads up :)

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Chesterfield, NH
    Posts
    504

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    This to me doesn't make scientific sense. If you encapsulate the spores you have essentially sterilized it. A sterilized rubber glove does not kill the germs on your hands but prevents the transmission of the germs to someone else.
    This is an important fact, you cannot guarantee sterility by treating with radiation all you can do is guarantee that something went through a sterilization process (which is involved to determine power levels and exposure) - very procedure oriented.
    So Acebird Irradiation WILL NOT KILL AFB ???

    https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...49165190_n.jpg

    Irradiation: Is an effective way of killing all of the spores without damaging your equipment, including frames with wax foundation.


    you need to go to work for the USDA
    .You can contact: USDA Beltsville Bee Research Laboratory and see what thier tell you
    Bee Research is located at:
    10300 BALTIMORE AVENUE
    BLDG. 476, RM. 100, BARC-EAST Beltsville, MD 20705 USA


    http://www.ars.usda.gov/contactus/co...de=12-45-33-00

    Or Harvard Medical School, Boston, Massachusetts

    For me I will Irradiation about 60 Mi one way and about $15.00 a box.

    http://www.isomedix.com/Gamma/Locations.html

    I do not know if this is the only Co. in the USA that dose this or not


    BEE HAPPY Jim 134
    Last edited by Jim 134; 11-25-2012 at 06:01 AM.
    Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA.
    http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

  11. #71
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,084

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    I believe there is a place in PA where irradiation is done also. Irradiation of beekeeping equipment, primarily supers of infected comb, has been an acceptable and effective practice for sometime now. Twenty years or more.

    It is my understanding that the equipment has to be individually placed in a plastic bag and inside a cardboard box. I don't know if that is true or not. Just something I have heard. So it could be wrong. Perhaps someone from MA knows.

    I agree w/ Brian, that encapsulation should be an adequately effective means of handling AFB spores. It minimizes the availability of those spores, which would have to be picked up by bees when they were doing something to the walls of the super's interior, propolizing it?

    Whether irradiation or hot wax dipping is worthwhile is something to question taking into consideration the possible risk of exposure of AFB spores regenerating the disease, the cost in time and money inherent in each procedure, the quality of the equipment, and how easy it is to simply burn or bury the infected equipment and buy new equipment to replace what is infected. I routinely burn uninfected equipment because I don't want it around and I'd like to increase the value of what I have.

    I have a friend who has lots of boxes stenciled AFB ETO. Gives people a chuckle when they see it. And a pause too.

    It takes 35 AFB spores fed to a honeybee larvae less than 53 hours old after egg hatch to infect at an LD50 rate. One spore has been found to infect newly hatched larva.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  12. #72
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Pottstown, Pennyslvania, USA
    Posts
    403

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    If you go to this site "http://www.montcobeekeepers.org/Pages/Irradiation.aspx" you'll see the details about what is required to have hive equipment irradiated. It's the club I belong to, Montgomery County PA Beekeepers.

  13. #73
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    28,084

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Thanks. That's good to know.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  14. #74
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Chesterfield, NH
    Posts
    504

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    It is my understanding that the equipment has to be individually placed in a plastic bag and inside a cardboard box. I don't know if that is true or not. Just something I have heard. So it could be wrong. Perhaps someone from MA knows.
    You must put ALL equipment in plastic bag and put in cardboard box and ALL boxes are the same size (J-24) if your equipment will not fit in to a (J-24) box forget at.......... IF and box LEAK AT ALL it will go into the trash............

    IMHO If the comb as no good it is NOT Worth it .......




    BEE HAPPY Jim 134
    Last edited by Jim 134; 11-25-2012 at 08:52 AM.
    Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA.
    http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

  15. #75
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Dell Rapids, SD
    Posts
    158

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Has anybody tried placing AFB or EFB infected equipment in a vacuum chamber for treatment?

    At 10000 micron, the water in the bacteria would boil at room temperature, and wouldn't that destroy them completely?

    Dave

  16. #76
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Chesterfield, NH
    Posts
    504

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by djastram View Post
    Has anybody tried placing AFB or EFB infected equipment in a vacuum chamber for treatment?

    At 10000 micron, the water in the bacteria would boil at room temperature, and wouldn't that destroy them completely?

    Dave
    Hope this help you
    http://youtu.be/05tCHtUyNHM

    http://youtu.be/wyiaV222JoQ


    BEE HAPPY Jim 134
    Last edited by Jim 134; 11-25-2012 at 09:10 AM.
    Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA.
    http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

  17. #77
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
    Posts
    10,020

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Roland View Post
    We annually scrap the insides of our supers to remove any build up of propolis and wax. We use a 2 inch wide paint scraper, and it leaves a 2 inch wide swatch of exposed wood. That sounds significant.
    Depends ...
    Assuming the wax penetration is deep enough the spores are still captivated. The tool and scrapings I would sterilize. Lets get something straight, I am not suggesting you control AFB once it is found by wax coating. All I am saying is it sounds like it should work.

    So Acebird Irradiation WILL NOT KILL AFB ???
    No Jim I didn't say that at all. I am saying there is still a risk that after a "sterilization process" it is possible to have live spores. Unlike the wax coating the wood is still cracked, checked or what ever which could harbor spores that made it through or new spores that came from the environment. I think the question is is sterilization done before an outbreak or after?

    Great films BTW
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  18. #78
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Chesterfield, NH
    Posts
    504

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    This to me doesn't make scientific sense. If you encapsulate the spores you have essentially sterilized it. A sterilized rubber glove does not kill the germs on your hands but prevents the transmission of the germs to someone else.
    This is an important fact, you cannot guarantee sterility by treating with radiation all you can do is guarantee that something went through a sterilization process (which is involved to determine power levels and exposure) - very procedure oriented.
    Acebird.......This is reply #60


    Did you not post this ???




    BEE HAPPY Jim 134
    Franklin County Beekeepers Association MA.
    http://www.franklinmabeekeepers.org/

  19. #79
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, OH
    Posts
    2,726

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    the spores are still captivated.
    Favorite quote of the day.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -H.S. Thompson

  20. #80
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    28,084

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    You can't use someones words to convict them. If it's good enuf for Romney, why not Brian?

    Sorry Brian, I thought you wrote that too and shook my head when I read it. That darn text communication thing is tricky.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



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