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Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

36K views 119 replies 32 participants last post by  westernbeekeeper 
#1 · (Edited)
Hello all,
I have come across a deal about an hour and a half away from me, where someone moved in to a property, and the lean-to shed had about 100 used deep hives bodies with frames and comb, all complete and in good condition. So, basically, he talked to me and said I could have them for free. I went through them and found no sign of foulbrood in what remaining comb there was, as mice have completely decimated most of the comb. So I'm thinking I will go and get all these supers, and I will pitch the comb and old Duragilt foundation, sterilize all frames and hive bodies, and then either keep them for expansion of my operation or sell them. There is a huge stack of telescoping covers and bottom boards that he said I may have also. What are your thoughts? How would you sterilize the boxes and frames? Thanks in advance.
 
#45 ·
Pierco have not worked very well for me. They tend to warp and maybe from my waxing of them. If you don't put them in with the bow the same way, bees will bill cross comb between the adjacent foundation. So they are a pain remembering the bow direction.
 
#46 ·
WB

Have you ever used plastic frames before? Before you purchase 1300 of them you might want to ask around especially if you are used to wooden frames. There are numerous posts on here about the ML PF series (plastic) frames. They have their quirks, some of which you might not be thrilled about. Sounds like you got a good deal on the boxes, don't scrimp on the frames because of a few bucks.
 
#47 ·
UPDATE:

Well folks,
I decided to keep them all for my own use. I will buy new wooden frames from ML as I need them. I have developed an efficient "system" for scraping, firing, and painting the supers. The kerosene method that Sqkcrk described in one of the first couple posts works fabulously. Thanks everyone for your input so far; I really appreciate it. It will cost me around $8,000 to complete about 42 double-deep hives with bees, if I buy all of it new (package bees also). So there's an update.
 
#49 · (Edited)
1. The USDA tells me "hard boil" (I ask about wood) for 4 Hr. will not destroy all the AFB spores, organisms, and pathogens.
bleach or lye will not help

2. The USDA tells me heat to 350F to kill AFB for 30 or more minutes (the wood will be on fire)


3. Irradiation: Is an effective way of killing all of the spores without damaging your equipment, including frames with wax foundation.


Hot wax wont kill it ether it simply ENCAPSULATES it beekeepers in NEWZELAND have excused this method as unreliable and scorch the boxes is not a 100%


You can contact: USDA Beltsville Bee Research Laboratory and see what thier tell you
About bleach kill AFB on wood and wax.

Bee Research is located at:
10300 BALTIMORE AVENUE
BLDG. 476, RM. 100, BARC-EAST Beltsville, MD 20705 USA


http://www.ars.usda.gov/contactus/contactus.htm?modecode=12-45-33-00



BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
 
#50 ·
Thanks Jim, where is that data published? I'd like to read it. :)

Ben is talking about hive components with no sign of AFB, so any of these methods are probably overkill.

The flash point of wood is about 450 degrees F..... ? I'm planning on using the wax dipping process, if its a bad idea, I will reconsider, but I want to see a scientific paper before abandoning the idea. :)
 
#54 · (Edited)
.

The flash point of wood is about 450 degrees F..... ? I'm planning on using the wax dipping process, if its a bad idea, I will reconsider, but I want to see a scientific paper before abandoning the idea. :)

I hope you are sure about the flash point of wood ...and how about the paint on the wood ???

This one is 500F for wood but at what size

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fuels-ignition-temperatures-d_171.html

And what as the flash point of the bee wax in the wood ???

IMHO at will make the flash point lower ???

Hot wax wont kill AFB ether it simply ENCAPSULATES it beekeepers in NEW ZELAND have excused this method as unreliable




BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
 
#51 ·
call the folks at beltsville bee lab. they sent me info that showed good spore kill at 275 degrees for 2 hours.

but fair warning, i tried it and it was almost grounds for divorce. :)

what would be the signs of afb in the hive components?
 
#53 ·
(foot out of mouth) sorry lee, that's what i get for jumping in without having read the whole thread.

dipping in wax or scorching may be overkill, but i don't blame ben for taking the precaution.

good score ben!
 
#58 ·
I do know irradiation kill it ALL 100% the ONLY way I do NOT know



.You can contact: USDA Beltsville Bee Research Laboratory and see what thier tell you
Bee Research is located at:
10300 BALTIMORE AVENUE
BLDG. 476, RM. 100, BARC-EAST Beltsville, MD 20705 USA


http://www.ars.usda.gov/contactus/co...de=12-45-33-00



BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
 
#60 ·
LHot wax wont kill AFB ether it simply ENCAPSULATES it beekeepers in NEW ZELAND have excused this method as unreliable
This to me doesn't make scientific sense. If you encapsulate the spores you have essentially sterilized it. A sterilized rubber glove does not kill the germs on your hands but prevents the transmission of the germs to someone else.
This is an important fact, you cannot guarantee sterility by treating with radiation all you can do is guarantee that something went through a sterilization process (which is involved to determine power levels and exposure) - very procedure oriented.
 
#63 ·
I don't believe it would have any significant difference at all, even if you did it once a day.
Are you saying that with your scientist's hat on? :rolleyes: Have you run studies? No?
This to me doesn't make scientific sense.
A sterilized rubber glove does not kill the germs on your hands but prevents the transmission of the germs to someone else.
Perhaps you wouldn't mind having a surgeon operate on you with holes in his latex gloves?
:lpf:
 
#68 ·
We annually scrap the insides of our supers to remove any build up of propolis and wax. We use a 2 inch wide paint scraper, and it leaves a 2 inch wide swatch of exposed wood. That sounds significant.

Does anyone know the spore level threshold for expression of clinical symptoms?

Crazy Roland
 
#77 ·
We annually scrap the insides of our supers to remove any build up of propolis and wax. We use a 2 inch wide paint scraper, and it leaves a 2 inch wide swatch of exposed wood. That sounds significant.
Depends ...
Assuming the wax penetration is deep enough the spores are still captivated. The tool and scrapings I would sterilize. Lets get something straight, I am not suggesting you control AFB once it is found by wax coating. All I am saying is it sounds like it should work.

So Acebird Irradiation WILL NOT KILL AFB ???
No Jim I didn't say that at all. I am saying there is still a risk that after a "sterilization process" it is possible to have live spores. Unlike the wax coating the wood is still cracked, checked or what ever which could harbor spores that made it through or new spores that came from the environment. I think the question is is sterilization done before an outbreak or after?

Great films BTW
 
#69 ·
I'm thinking that its an acceptable risk to have encapsulated spores in a hive (your hive of course, not mine ;) ).....until the hive bodies and supers are no longer serviceable. About that time, the viable spores could see the light of day again as the wood disintegrates. It should be burned before that point. :)
 
#71 ·
I believe there is a place in PA where irradiation is done also. Irradiation of beekeeping equipment, primarily supers of infected comb, has been an acceptable and effective practice for sometime now. Twenty years or more.

It is my understanding that the equipment has to be individually placed in a plastic bag and inside a cardboard box. I don't know if that is true or not. Just something I have heard. So it could be wrong. Perhaps someone from MA knows.

I agree w/ Brian, that encapsulation should be an adequately effective means of handling AFB spores. It minimizes the availability of those spores, which would have to be picked up by bees when they were doing something to the walls of the super's interior, propolizing it?

Whether irradiation or hot wax dipping is worthwhile is something to question taking into consideration the possible risk of exposure of AFB spores regenerating the disease, the cost in time and money inherent in each procedure, the quality of the equipment, and how easy it is to simply burn or bury the infected equipment and buy new equipment to replace what is infected. I routinely burn uninfected equipment because I don't want it around and I'd like to increase the value of what I have.

I have a friend who has lots of boxes stenciled AFB ETO. Gives people a chuckle when they see it. And a pause too.

It takes 35 AFB spores fed to a honeybee larvae less than 53 hours old after egg hatch to infect at an LD50 rate. One spore has been found to infect newly hatched larva.
 
#74 · (Edited)
It is my understanding that the equipment has to be individually placed in a plastic bag and inside a cardboard box. I don't know if that is true or not. Just something I have heard. So it could be wrong. Perhaps someone from MA knows.
You must put ALL equipment in plastic bag and put in cardboard box and ALL boxes are the same size (J-24) if your equipment will not fit in to a (J-24) box forget at.......... IF and box LEAK AT ALL it will go into the trash............

IMHO If the comb as no good it is NOT Worth it .......




BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
 
#89 ·
Sorry Brian, I thought you wrote that too and shook my head when I read it.
There is obviously a joke here but I don't get it.

Yes Jim I did say that. Are we thinking that not being able to guarantee sterilization is the same as not killing? They are not.

Oh, I see it now it is the word "captivated". Yup, you are right Mark. Joke is on me.
 
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