Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

[westernbeekeeper]

Well, here's an update;
I went and picked up these deeps, and there are exactly 130 of them, all with frames, plus 20 solid bottom boards, and 20 telescoping covers, all for FREE (minus the $50 in gasoline to go get them). I am looking at it all, and yes, I am thinking I will just burn the frames. It would take most of forever to sterilize 1300 frames! there are alot of dry-rotten and just bad like someone predicted earlier. I can get 1300 deep frames from Mann Lake for right about $3000. Does anyone else know of a cheaper place?

[Mbeck]

Is Pierco an option for you?
Call Nick, he will give you a good price.
No assembly, foundation, glue or staples.

[RAK]

I currently mill my own frames. When I don't, I would get frames from Browning cut Stock or Western Bee budget frames. I get all my snap in foundation from Nick. Gives me the best price.

[westernbeekeeper]

Yes, Pierco one-peice would be an option. Currently, anything is an option; I just want price efficiency.

[mgolden]

Pierco have not worked very well for me. They tend to warp and maybe from my waxing of them. If you don't put them in with the bow the same way, bees will bill cross comb between the adjacent foundation. So they are a pain remembering the bow direction.

[Riskybizz]

WB

Have you ever used plastic frames before? Before you purchase 1300 of them you might want to ask around especially if you are used to wooden frames. There are numerous posts on here about the ML PF series (plastic) frames. They have their quirks, some of which you might not be thrilled about. Sounds like you got a good deal on the boxes, don't scrimp on the frames because of a few bucks.

[westernbeekeeper]

UPDATE:

Well folks,
I decided to keep them all for my own use. I will buy new wooden frames from ML as I need them. I have developed an efficient "system" for scraping, firing, and painting the supers. The kerosene method that Sqkcrk described in one of the first couple posts works fabulously. Thanks everyone for your input so far; I really appreciate it. It will cost me around $8,000 to complete about 42 double-deep hives with bees, if I buy all of it new (package bees also). So there's an update.

[Lburou]

I would dip the boxes in paraffin. They will last longer and the heat of liquid wax will kill every disease that could possibly be in the wood.

http://www.queenrightcolonies.com/up...ofBeehives.pdf

Go to page 14 of PDF.

That is the only way to really sterilize those bodies. I've done it the old way mind you, but it is not anywhere close to geting all AFB spores, plus it weatherizes the bodies too.

[Jim 134]

1. The USDA tells me "hard boil" (I ask about wood) for 4 Hr. will not destroy all the AFB spores, organisms, and pathogens.
bleach or lye will not help

2. The USDA tells me heat to 350F to kill AFB for 30 or more minutes (the wood will be on fire)


3. Irradiation: Is an effective way of killing all of the spores without damaging your equipment, including frames with wax foundation.


Hot wax wont kill it ether it simply ENCAPSULATES it beekeepers in NEWZELAND have excused this method as unreliable and scorch the boxes is not a 100%


You can contact: USDA Beltsville Bee Research Laboratory and see what thier tell you
About bleach kill AFB on wood and wax.

Bee Research is located at:
10300 BALTIMORE AVENUE
BLDG. 476, RM. 100, BARC-EAST Beltsville, MD 20705 USA


http://www.ars.usda.gov/contactus/co...de=12-45-33-00



BEE HAPPY Jim 134

[Lburou]

Thanks Jim, where is that data published? I'd like to read it.

Ben is talking about hive components with no sign of AFB, so any of these methods are probably overkill.

The flash point of wood is about 450 degrees F..... ? I'm planning on using the wax dipping process, if its a bad idea, I will reconsider, but I want to see a scientific paper before abandoning the idea.

[squarepeg]

call the folks at beltsville bee lab. they sent me info that showed good spore kill at 275 degrees for 2 hours.

but fair warning, i tried it and it was almost grounds for divorce.

what would be the signs of afb in the hive components?

[Lburou]

Not speaking for Ben, but he noted no evidence on the remaining combs after the mice had their way.

[squarepeg]

(foot out of mouth) sorry lee, that's what i get for jumping in without having read the whole thread.

dipping in wax or scorching may be overkill, but i don't blame ben for taking the precaution.

good score ben!

[Jim 134]

.

The flash point of wood is about 450 degrees F..... ? I'm planning on using the wax dipping process, if its a bad idea, I will reconsider, but I want to see a scientific paper before abandoning the idea.

I hope you are sure about the flash point of wood ...and how about the paint on the wood ???

This one is 500F for wood but at what size

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fu...res-d_171.html

And what as the flash point of the bee wax in the wood ???

IMHO at will make the flash point lower ???

Hot wax wont kill AFB ether it simply ENCAPSULATES it beekeepers in NEW ZELAND have excused this method as unreliable




BEE HAPPY Jim 134

[snl]

So are we saying here is that irradiation is the ONLY sure way of eliminating AFB?

[Jim 134]

call the folks at beltsville bee lab. they sent me info that showed good spore kill at 275 degrees for 2 hours.

but fair warning, i tried it and it was almost grounds for divorce.

what would be the signs of afb in the hive components?

As is in wood???


BEE HAPPY Jim 134

[squarepeg]

i misunderstood the post jim, hopefully everyone knows that you can't see the afb spores by visually inspecting the wood. duh.. my bad.

[Jim 134]

So are we saying here is that irradiation is the ONLY sure way of eliminating AFB?

I do know irradiation kill it ALL 100% the ONLY way I do NOT know



.You can contact: USDA Beltsville Bee Research Laboratory and see what thier tell you
Bee Research is located at:
10300 BALTIMORE AVENUE
BLDG. 476, RM. 100, BARC-EAST Beltsville, MD 20705 USA


http://www.ars.usda.gov/contactus/co...de=12-45-33-00



BEE HAPPY Jim 134

[Jim 134]

Look at Pg. 19 for AFB

http://www.queenrightcolonies.com/up...ofBeehives.pdf

Publication May 2001

I read this in Bee Culture about 5-6 years ago Hot wax wont kill AFB ether it simply ENCAPSULATES it beekeepers in NEW ZELAND have excused this method as unreliable



BEE HAPPY Jim 134

[Acebird]

LHot wax wont kill AFB ether it simply ENCAPSULATES it beekeepers in NEW ZELAND have excused this method as unreliable

This to me doesn't make scientific sense. If you encapsulate the spores you have essentially sterilized it. A sterilized rubber glove does not kill the germs on your hands but prevents the transmission of the germs to someone else.
This is an important fact, you cannot guarantee sterility by treating with radiation all you can do is guarantee that something went through a sterilization process (which is involved to determine power levels and exposure) - very procedure oriented.