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  1. #21
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    Nov 2009
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    Manning, SC
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    Is there any research on UV killing AFB spores?
    Have not seen any research on it , but if you find it......post it!

  2. #22
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    May 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Found an article on using UV to kill Nosema spores so I would assume it would destroy other bacterial spores as well.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    Found an article on using UV to kill Nosema spores so I would assume it would destroy other bacterial spores as well.
    Not a bad assumption but I would not assume........too much at stake.........

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    I know SNL, I figure biology of bacterial spores is similar and the mode of action of UV is pretty tough to resist. I will look into it more deeply, but one article did mention AFB spores viable up to 70 years.

  5. #25
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by loggermike View Post
    I use one of these puppies to sterilize old boxes and pallets. This thing is a flamethrower. Don't bother trying to use a little propane bottle torch. Will take forever .

    http://www.amazon.com/Red-Dragon-VT-...d+burner+torch
    I think Harbor freight had one for about 12 bucks.

    I don't believe UV will get the penetration into the wood that you need to kill all the spores.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  6. #26
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Don't the boxes on the top get chared more than the one on the bottom?


    The hand torch is a much hotter flame but sterility is based on time and temperature. If you take the time and carefully cover all the areas it will be effective.

    Using gasoline is foolish and may not be as effective as kero.
    Having used a hand torch I'd rather do the stack and burn method.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  7. #27
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    Jul 2008
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    OKC, OK USA
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    2,869

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    The following quote was taken from Richard Taylor’s “The How To Do It Book Of Beekeeping”:

    47. How To Sterilize Hives

    “…..The equipment having been scraped, stack three hive bodies (five or six if you are dealing with shallow supers) upside down on an old bottom board. Sprinkle kerosene (never gasoline) lightly on the inside of this stack, especially the corners. Now crumple three or four sheets of newspaper and drop them in. Next drop a rumpled sheet of paper that is burning well. The stack immediately becomes a roaring chimney. After a few seconds slap a board or old cover over the stack and with a stick block the entrance below, instantly suffocating the fire. The hives are now sterilized and need only be aired out to get rid of the kerosene odor. They should not be scorched heavily inside only thoroughly singed.
    Mike Forbes
    Red Dirt Apiaries

  8. #28
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    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by NasalSponge View Post
    They should not be scorched heavily inside only thoroughly singed.
    This part doesn't make sense to me. The kero smell indicates that the kero seeped into the wood and did not burn all the way. That shields the heat from the wood just like it would if you sprayed the boxes with water before drizzling them with kero.
    The advantage of a torch is the flame is hottest at it's tip so it should sterilize (term used loosely) without as much destruction. The con is it might take longer but if you used a weed burner like what was shown in the link I don't think time would be an issue.
    I can see where the flaming chimney would be used by an Apiary Inspector for its convenience. Perfectly understandable.
    Last edited by Acebird; 11-03-2012 at 05:00 PM. Reason: edited per Marks help, Thanks
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  9. #29
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    As a bee inspector I can see where the flaming chimney would be use as a convenience.
    Wow, you are now a New York Apiary Inspector? Congratulations, that must have been a lot of work.

    http://www.agriculture.ny.gov/PI/PIHome.html

    When did that happen?
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  10. #30
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    Jul 2000
    Location
    NE Calif.
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    2,267

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    I have used the stack and burn method in the past. I never felt like it gave an 'even' distribution of heat for sterilization purposes. I like the weedburner (did 400 5 frame nucs and a bunch of used pallets with it this summer).
    This looks like the Harbor Freight one Ace referred to. http://www.harborfreight.com/propane-torch-91033.html
    Looks like it would do the job .I think I will pick one up for a backup.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Pierce/Thurson County, Wa
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    186

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Okay, here is what Wikipedia says:

    Because of the persistence of the spores (which can survive up to 40 years), many State Apiary Inspectors require an AFB diseased hive to be burned completely. A less radical method of containing the spread of disease is burning the frames and comb and thoroughly flame scorching the interior of the hive body, bottom board and covers. Dipping the hive parts in hot paraffin wax or a 3% sodium hypochlorite solution (bleach) also renders the AFB spores innocuous.[13] It is also possible to sterilize an infected hive without damaging either the structure of the hive or the stores of honey and pollen it contains by sufficiently lengthy exposure to an atmosphere of ethylene oxide gas, as in a closed chamber, as hospitals do to sterilize equipment that cannot withstand steam sterilization.[14][15]
    And here are they sources they cite:
    13. Dobbelaere W, de Graaf DC, Reybroeck W, Desmedt E, Peeters JE, Jacobs FJ (August 2001). "Disinfection of wooden structures contaminated with Paenibacillus larvae subsp. larvae spores" J. Appl. Microbiol. 91 (2): 212–6. doi:10.1046/j.1365-2672.2001.01376.x. PMID 11473585

    14. Robinson. Gas Sterilization of Beekeeping Equipment Contaminated by the American Foulbrood Organism, Bacillus larvae. The Florida Entomologist. JSTOR 3493642

    15. . JSTOR 3493642
    Bacillus spores are basically like little seeds. Once conditions are right, they will pop off their hard shell and start growing again. They are also the reason that pressure sterilization was invented. They are hard to kill.

    So, burning, dipping in wax or bleach, or exposing them to EtO would all work. I think it might be a little hard to get your hands on some EtO, but maybe that is just me.
    If you think anything organic is good for you, go drink some organic solvents.
    geek, learning how to be a beek

  12. #32
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Some States used to have ETO Chambers. Some were on trailers so they could be taken to where equipment w2as in need of sterilization. ETO is carcinogistic, so it went out of common usage.

    I'm surprised Wikipedia didn't mention irradiation.
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  13. #33
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    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by loggermike View Post
    This looks like the Harbor Freight one Ace referred to. http://www.harborfreight.com/propane-torch-91033.html
    Very simular. Mine is a solid can shaped flame thrower and works well for burning weeds against the buildings that I have to do. I don't use the pull trigger. I set the valve for the size of the flame I want. When the LP tank is full pulling the trigger can be a hair burning experience. My wife is deathly afraid of the thing.

    Rader Sidetrack, I am NOT a bee inspector. If my wording is incorrect or confusing please state the proper wording for my post. I will edit it and be eternally grateful.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  14. #34
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    As a bee inspector I can see where the flaming chimney would be use as a convenience. Perfectly understandable.
    I can see where the flaming chimney would be use[d] [by an Apiary Inspector for its] convenience.

    Maybe that's what you meant?
    Mark Berninghausen "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." Zora Neale Hurston

  15. #35
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    Mar 2011
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    Utica, NY
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Some States used to have ETO Chambers. Some were on trailers so they could be taken to where equipment w2as in need of sterilization. ETO is carcinogistic, so it went out of common usage.

    I'm surprised Wikipedia didn't mention irradiation.
    Both are costly and a can of kero in the field is hard to beat. BTW if he wasn't so far away I would take the frames.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Clackamas Oregon
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    628

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    I took a portable propane heater to mine and it was a time consuming experience. I have a weed burner as well but never tried it on used boxes. That Harbor freight weed burner really howls when you pull the trigger! I was going to do some the ‘Lauri’ method and will need to break that bad boy out again. Anybody know how the glues (Titebond) hold up to that heat?
    “Why do we fall, sir? So that we might learn to pick ourselves up” Alfred Pennyworth Batman Begins (2005)

  17. #37
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    Nov 2011
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    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by minz View Post
    Anybody know how the glues (Titebond) hold up to that heat?
    The way to intentionally disassemble a cured Titebond joint is with heat. From the Titebond FAQ page:

    What is the best way to disassemble a glue joint?

    The key to the disassembly of glue joints is weakening the bond. For Titebond Original, Titebond II and Titebond III, raising the glue joint temperature with a heat gun or a blow dryer will reduce the glue's strength. Steam from an iron may also work.

    http://www.titebond.com/frequently_asked_questions.aspx
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  18. #38
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    May 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    I was going to mention a bleach dip but it would probably be hard on any metal in the hives.

  19. #39
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    May 2012
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    Forest grove, Ore USA
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    182

    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    It's just a guess but I think it would be a really long wait to get the bleach smell out of the equipment too.

  20. #40
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    May 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Bleach oxidizes quickly and you would need to rinse first as well I would imagine but the salt left behind might be good for the bees w/o rinsing but it would corrode any metal somewhat. I would think wax dipping would be good except the boxes are painted already and I would think uneven absorption might cause issues.

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