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  1. #1
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    Default Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Hello all,
    I have come across a deal about an hour and a half away from me, where someone moved in to a property, and the lean-to shed had about 100 used deep hives bodies with frames and comb, all complete and in good condition. So, basically, he talked to me and said I could have them for free. I went through them and found no sign of foulbrood in what remaining comb there was, as mice have completely decimated most of the comb. So I'm thinking I will go and get all these supers, and I will pitch the comb and old Duragilt foundation, sterilize all frames and hive bodies, and then either keep them for expansion of my operation or sell them. There is a huge stack of telescoping covers and bottom boards that he said I may have also. What are your thoughts? How would you sterilize the boxes and frames? Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by westernbeekeeper; 11-01-2012 at 09:20 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    I'd sure use the boxes. If the frames had metal wedges driven in to secure the Duragilt they might be more trouble than they are worth to reuse. Considering a new wood frame is about the same price as the foundation I have never been too excited about putting a new foundation in an old frame. Give it a try with some and see how it goes.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Thanks, Jim. It does have those metal strips along the sides, but I have tried just punching lots of the comb out, and it comes out easy as pie. No trouble at all. Like I mentioned, most of it is Duragilt, but there is several handfuls of crimp-wire. There is also a few wax moth cocoons.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by westernbeekeeper View Post
    Thanks, Jim. It does have those metal strips along the sides, but I have tried just punching lots of the comb out, and it comes out easy as pie. No trouble at all. Like I mentioned, most of it is Duragilt, but there is several handfuls of crimp-wire. There is also a few wax moth cocoons.
    Duracomb doesn't have the metal ribs on each side like Duragilt does. Both have the plastic between the wax. Either way, chuck it.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  5. #5
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    Oct 2012
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    butler, ga. united states
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    how can you tell there is no sign of foulbrood in old combs?

  6. #6
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    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    100 free deeps. A nice situation to find yourself in. Good advice here.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Chuck the frames. They are probably dried out and brittle anyway. Not worth using, when new are more likely what you want or like and not that expensive. Looking at the fact that the boxes didn't cost you anything you hav e saved quite a lot that you can use for frames and foundation.

    Scorch the boxes by standing 4 or 5 upside down on a bottom board. Place a sheet or two of newspaper on the bottom board. Dribble kerosene around on the inside walls of the stack of supers, wetting the newspaper. Light the newspaper from the part sticking out the entrance and stand back.

    This will create a chimney fire. It will roar and shoot flames up into the air above the boxes. Be mindful of the wind. Approaching from the side from which the wind is blowing carefully place a telescoping cover on top of the supers. This will dampen the fire, if the wood isn't burning too much.

    Knock the stake over w/ a shovel and rolol the supers around on the ground. The flames should go out. You could douse them w/ water.

    That's how I was taught to scorch supers exposed to AFB.

    A simpler and safer method, which may not be as effective, is to use a handheld torch, running it up and down the inside of each box, especially the inside corners. I doubt that you7 can get as good a heat as w/ the chimney. To be really effective one should be able to scrap charcoal off the inside of the boxes.

    Good luck.
    Sqkcrk, I have been taught how to do this too, except with gasoline instead of kerosene. I forgot about using that method as an option. That's my best bet so far. As far as the frames, or all of the equipment for that matter, they are in near new condition. No brittleness or dryrot, very structurally sound. I would have a hard time chucking the frames, since they are in good used shape, but I will still be thankful for the boxes even if I have to pitch the frames. It is free, after all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robndixie View Post
    how can you tell there is no sign of foulbrood in old combs?
    Rob: I have looked at boxes for sale with old comb with foulbrood. Sunken cappings, very small poor old brood pattern, dried out larvae flattened on the bottom of the cells, etc. Could be symptom of something else, though, I guess. But your never know for sure. I have bought a few boxes here and there that looked way worse than these, and after a safety sterilization, I put them to use. 2-3 years later, not a sign of disease in any of those (now active) hives. I used the old frames, too.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Chuck the frames. They are probably dried out and brittle anyway. Not worth using, when new are more likely what you want or like and not that expensive. Looking at the fact that the boxes didn't cost you anything you hav e saved quite a lot that you can use for frames and foundation.

    Scorch the boxes by standing 4 or 5 upside down on a bottom board. Place a sheet or two of newspaper on the bottom board. Dribble kerosene around on the inside walls of the stack of supers, wetting the newspaper. Light the newspaper from the part sticking out the entrance and stand back.

    This will create a chimney fire. It will roar and shoot flames up into the air above the boxes. Be mindful of the wind. Approaching from the side from which the wind is blowing carefully place a telescoping cover on top of the supers. This will dampen the fire, if the wood isn't burning too much.

    Knock the stake over w/ a shovel and rolol the supers around on the ground. The flames should go out. You could douse them w/ water.

    That's how I was taught to scorch supers exposed to AFB.

    A simpler and safer method, which may not be as effective, is to use a handheld torch, running it up and down the inside of each box, especially the inside corners. I doubt that you7 can get as good a heat as w/ the chimney. To be really effective one should be able to scrap charcoal off the inside of the boxes.

    Good luck.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    A simpler and safer method, which may not be as effective, is to use a handheld torch, running it up and down the inside of each box, especially the inside corners. I doubt that you7 can get as good a heat as w/ the chimney. To be really effective one should be able to scrap charcoal off the inside of the boxes.
    That's what I have been doing for 2 years now, but the "chimney firing" method would be more effective. I will try that; can I use gasoline instead of kerosene?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by westernbeekeeper View Post
    That's what I have been doing for 2 years now, but the "chimney firing" method would be more effective. I will try that; can I use gasoline instead of kerosene?
    Sure you can, but it's more dangerous in my opinion.

    If the frames are as nice as you say, I'd clean them of comb and use as is. I don't know what you could reasonably do to sterilize them that wouldn't make them unusable.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by westernbeekeeper View Post
    ... can I use gasoline instead of kerosene?
    Do you remember the thread where you wanted feedback on your business plan? Where various posters brought up the issue of health insurance? And as I recall you don't have any?

    I didn't see any line item in that business plan for "plastic surgery" to attempt to undo an accidental 3rd degree burn. If you're going to run without insurance, you need to think about the "worst case" options and the best way to avoid that scenario.

    Kerosene is low risk compared to gasoline.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Is there any research on UV killing AFB spores? I would think it would be easy to get a bulb for a UV sterilizer and hang it in a stack of 5-10 boxes and walk away for 30 minutes or so.

  13. #13
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    Forest grove, Ore USA
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    What kind of temperature does it take to kill afb and similar diseases?

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    Is there any research on UV killing AFB spores?
    Have not seen any research on it , but if you find it......post it!
    http://OxaVap.com
    Your source for the Varrox Vaporizer, "One of the highest ranked" by R. Oliver

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Rader Sidetrack View Post
    Do you remember the thread where you wanted feedback on your business plan? Where various posters brought up the issue of health insurance? And as I recall you don't have any?

    I didn't see any line item in that business plan for "plastic surgery" to attempt to undo an accidental 3rd degree burn. If you're going to run without insurance, you need to think about the "worst case" options and the best way to avoid that scenario.

    Kerosene is low risk compared to gasoline.
    Oh Lord, Yeah I sure hope the burns I get come from Kerosene rather than Gasoline. Try some magnesium. that will light up your life.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Oh Lord, Yeah I sure hope the burns I get come from Kerosene rather than Gasoline. Try some magnesium. that will light up your life.
    Burns from any source are usually quite painful. Personally, I don't see why anyone would hope to get burned. But you do seem to have an unusual outlook from the rest of us, perhaps you are "into" pain. Whatever turns your crank.




    For those that would like real data, the flash point of kerosene (100–162 F) is substantially higher than gasoline(-45 F). Note that is minus 45 degrees. The flash point is inversely related to the potential hazard of a flammable liquid. More at the link:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_point
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    That's how I was taught to scorch supers exposed to AFB.
    Don't the boxes on the top get chared more than the one on the bottom?
    A simpler and safer method, which may not be as effective, is to use a handheld torch,
    The hand torch is a much hotter flame but sterility is based on time and temperature. If you take the time and carefully cover all the areas it will be effective.

    Using gasoline is foolish and may not be as effective as kero.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Acebird View Post
    Don't the boxes on the top get chared more than the one on the bottom?


    The hand torch is a much hotter flame but sterility is based on time and temperature. If you take the time and carefully cover all the areas it will be effective.

    Using gasoline is foolish and may not be as effective as kero.
    Having used a hand torch I'd rather do the stack and burn method.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    The following quote was taken from Richard Taylor’s “The How To Do It Book Of Beekeeping”:

    47. How To Sterilize Hives

    “…..The equipment having been scraped, stack three hive bodies (five or six if you are dealing with shallow supers) upside down on an old bottom board. Sprinkle kerosene (never gasoline) lightly on the inside of this stack, especially the corners. Now crumple three or four sheets of newspaper and drop them in. Next drop a rumpled sheet of paper that is burning well. The stack immediately becomes a roaring chimney. After a few seconds slap a board or old cover over the stack and with a stick block the entrance below, instantly suffocating the fire. The hives are now sterilized and need only be aired out to get rid of the kerosene odor. They should not be scorched heavily inside only thoroughly singed.
    Mike Forbes
    Red Dirt Apiaries

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Have access to 100 deeps with frames; need your thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by NasalSponge View Post
    They should not be scorched heavily inside only thoroughly singed.
    This part doesn't make sense to me. The kero smell indicates that the kero seeped into the wood and did not burn all the way. That shields the heat from the wood just like it would if you sprayed the boxes with water before drizzling them with kero.
    The advantage of a torch is the flame is hottest at it's tip so it should sterilize (term used loosely) without as much destruction. The con is it might take longer but if you used a weed burner like what was shown in the link I don't think time would be an issue.
    I can see where the flaming chimney would be used by an Apiary Inspector for its convenience. Perfectly understandable.
    Last edited by Acebird; 11-03-2012 at 05:00 PM. Reason: edited per Marks help, Thanks
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

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