Bee Weaver bees/calmness

[cerezha]

Brother Adam concluded ALL Apis Mellifera bees came from Africa.

Homo sapiens as well!

[Lburou]

Homo sapiens as well!

Yes indeed

[Riverratbees]

I bought 3 in July no complaints here all 3 hives are very strong. Went into winter with large cluster and plenty of honey reserves if it is not another warm winter. Ya aggressive behavior and being mite resistent are 2 traits in one. I noticed that in some bees I got out of a old house when I first started keeping bees.

[sfisher]

So from most of the replies so far, I guess you could say that they are not calm bees at all.

[cerezha]

So from most of the replies so far, I guess you could say that they are not calm bees at all.

It looks like my bees and many other feral/survivor bees are very similar: they do protect the hive from ANY intruders including mites, humans etc. I never had other bees, so it is impossible to compare. Speaking about my bees, they are calm most of the time - I am sitting next to the beehive every morning, no problem at all. But, getting into the nest with clumsy hands made them mad very quickly! With my limited experience (and confidence) they usually tolerate upper 3 boxes and THAN switch into "protective" mode! I have to tell you, their "protection" is something! But even in this agitated state, they usually do not follow me more than 20 feet and calmed down substantially withing an hour or two... 2-3 bees would patrol my backdoor for 3-7 days... after that - everything very peaceful and calm - nice, very "gentle" girls, busy working... After this thread, I really think that "protective" behavior and mite resistance is one thing - it is just protective behavior against everything, it is just one useful trait, than, it is not possible to separate those two things - "mite resistance" and "protective behavior".

[jim lyon]

Well calm is a description that folks may or may not assign to bees relative to how they are acting on any given day. Let's remember it is a natural instinct for bees to defend their hive. I am not sure that Weaver bees are really any less calm than bees from any other source. If you are worried about being attacked by just being near a hive then let me put you at ease, that isn't going to happen but hey they are honeybees and like any others they will occasionally sting you if you don't handle them properly and that's not exactly a bad thing.

[AstroBee]

After this thread, I really think that "protective" behavior and mite resistance is one thing - it is just protective behavior against everything, it is just one useful trait, than, it is not possible to separate those two things - "mite resistance" and "protective behavior".

Back 12 years ago, I had some Starline hybrids that would eat you alive- attacks unprovoked from 70 yards after several days post inspection! These bees were also loaded with mites. Just because your bees are "protective" does not necessarily mean that they will be mite resistant. AHB have several mechanisms that improve their mite resistance. Perhaps as pointed out by Jim Lyon, there has been much more AHB hybridization than commonly acknowledged. But my current understanding is that, in general, there is no correlation protective behavior and mite resistance. Mite resistance is obviously a very complex phenomenon, but we see improvements via several distinct mechanisms, some totally unrelated to protective behavior.

[cerezha]

... there is no correlation protective behavior and mite resistance. ..

I guess, it depends from definitions... in AHB case, there is a correlation between protective behavior and mite resistance. It depends,what you called "correlation". I was talking mainly at the phenotype level. On genotype level - of coarse many genes involved...

[hilreal]

I believe the mite resistance is due to the constant swarming not protective behavior.

[cerezha]

I believe the mite resistance is due to the constant swarming not protective behavior.

I guess, this is one mechanism. But my bees do not swarm often. They swarmed once. Nevertheless, they are mite-resistant for more than a year in my hands and a few years before. No treatment at all.

[Paul McCarty]

There are a lot of myths out there involving AHB. All bees are swarmy. The main thing with AHB is that they produce worker bees in a staggering number. I had a hive once that tested out as AHB that went from a cut-out of 3 frames which grew to 4 boxes and made a good honey crop within 2 months. Very impressive. They were difficult to work because they were horribly nervous and runny, so I re-queened them. They never did swarm on me, but when I pulled their queen to re-queen them they made 14 queen cells to replace her - almost over night.

Back to the subject of Beeweaver bees. The bottom line is that they are a "survivor" breed and basically very similar to domesticated ferals in many ways.

[mmmooretx]

I believe the mite resistance is due to the constant swarming not protective behavior.

I think I read somewhere that the AHB had slightly larger mantibles and groomed more aggressively. Yes the BeeWeaver breed has some of the genotypes of all the breeds but are primarily Italian hybrids. Listen to part one and two of their YouTube video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQhw...e_gdata_player

[sfisher]

Jim Im not worried about being attacked, I have a acre lot with a six foot solid fence all the way around the backyard. I have a neighbor with a driveway right on the other side of the fence. I usually only work my bees on my day off which is Sunday. If Im working my bees and he is working on his boat, I dont want to get him attacked. Im sure B Weaver bees wouldnt do that all the time, but I cant have it happen at all. Im just looking for someone to tell me what there B Weaver bees are like, and hopefully they would say nice. What I am hearing from most people is that they are defensive. I dont mind them being defensive, as long as they know who to be defensive against. Please keep the post comming, Im waiting to see the one that says his B Weaver bees are the gentelist bees he's ever seen. Steve

[cerezha]

... I dont mind them being defensive, as long as they know who to be defensive against....

If they are similar to mine (survivor), than, yes, they do know against who be defensive. They somehow identify me (properly) as a reason for disturbance. We have a large screened window and after disturbance 2-3 bees patrols the backdoor and window. They do zig-zag and trying to bump the screen when I am standing next to the screen (no beesuit). They are not interested at all when my wife is standing instead me. So far, they extend their defense to our backyard, which is 50' may be and keep it under control for a few days. But last time they were more than usual agitated - one girl managed to sting neighbor's gardener, which was not good at all! With two beehives and 5 neighbors, only one casualty has been reported withing the year.

[mmmooretx]

I have 3 hives of their bees on a residential lot here in Houston and have not had an issue. I have a chair I sit in to watch them 10' from the hives and have been buzzed only a couple of times. I have run the weed eater around the hives and the back yard and never have been attacked. No I do not wear a bee suit or veil when running the weed eater. While my experience is limited, started beekeeping on 2 June 2012, I have no problem highly recommending them. They are very productive and I have done hive inspections in a short sleeve T shirt with a veil and medical inspection gloves many times without a sting. Usually I get 2-3 that buzz around my veil but that is it. My three hives are all double deeps so a full inspection can be pretty invasive a little smoke seems to take care of it. I have two package bee sets on order for a 6 April pick up at their Navasota facility and am looking forward to that. My first one was a NUC and 2 & 3 were splits from hive 1 with BeeWeaver queens coming in the mail. I just rescued a small hive, in a trash can, last night and will pick up the NUC tonight. The captured hive bees were amazingly gentle, only 2-3 lbs. of bees in the hive. They seem to be smaller bees but I hope they do well and survive the winter. These will be my first "feral" bees, if I see any issues I will just re-queen with a BeeWeaver queen. I hope they do not get defensive like Sergey's, but that is part of learning about our girls....

Jim Im not worried about being attacked, I have a acre lot with a six foot solid fence all the way around the backyard. I have a neighbor with a driveway right on the other side of the fence. I usually only work my bees on my day off which is Sunday. If Im working my bees and he is working on his boat, I dont want to get him attacked. Im sure B Weaver bees wouldnt do that all the time, but I cant have it happen at all. Im just looking for someone to tell me what there B Weaver bees are like, and hopefully they would say nice. What I am hearing from most people is that they are defensive. I dont mind them being defensive, as long as they know who to be defensive against. Please keep the post comming, Im waiting to see the one that says his B Weaver bees are the gentelist bees he's ever seen. Steve

[Paul McCarty]

Just watch your new ferals. If they start bearding heavily or form a beard/collar around the top of the hive when you open it up, or if they are really nervous and drip off the frames and run around like roaches - definitely re-queen. Those are all the warning signs of high AHB genetics. The famed defensiveness can come and go - it's really more like unpredictability. They are sort of like "wild" bees on turbo mode. That's what makes them dangerous to the unprepared or unexpecting beekeeper and his surroundings.

[trance]

As some have stated, requeen. SO I am curious. If you requeen with an Italian and not another Beeweaver queen, will they continue to be Varroa resistant and all? WHat happens when you requeen these hives with another queen not from B weaver is my point?

[Tom Brueggen]

The genetics (varroa resistance and calmness) are both in the queen. If you requeen, your hive genetics will turn over in 5-6 weeks. That's not necessarily a bad thing. But that's where Beeweaver makes their brand, in there queens. You could get a colony of Africanized worker bees and requeen with a Beeweaver, and in 5-6 (summer) weeks have nice bees. The old mean ones will die off and be replaced by gentle genetics.

[trance]

Not trying to be difficult but curious. So you wouldn't get half and half? Meaning the drones DNA/traits of say an Italian mixed with B Weaver Queen would be canceled out in 5/6 summer weeks?

For example if I took the B Weaver queen out and added say a VSH Queen, the drones of the B Weaver DNA/Traits wouldn't matter, it's all dictated by the Queen? (I wouldn't say this is hard to believe as some species of fish can change sex like the Clown Fish and other odd animals that do some pretty amazing things). However there are Hybrid bees and in fact B Weaver has 4 or so Bees races in their Bee lines. So the Bees would be half Italian and Half Bee Weaver (Buckfast) but all the Hygiene traits and calmness is only passed down from the Queen? Or did I not understand your point? I really am trying to understand.

Wouldn't have fixing the AHB issue been faster? If you just requeened with the Buckfast colonies that didn't get infested with AHB if none of the traits are kept, but wait. Some traits have to be kept, that's how the Buckfast bee was made?

[Tom Brueggen]

The new queen that you put in is already mated, therefore the genetics of the drones left behind from the old queen will not mate with her. I suppose if the drones are mean they might bother you, but they don't have stingers anyway, so you can just slap them around and laugh. Now, if you introduce a virgin queen, and she mates with only drones left behind by the BeeWeaver queen ,then indeed, her offspring would be half and half.

I don't know what you're saying about the Buckfast colonies not getting infested by AHB? Is there some evidence that Buckfast bees are not susceptible to mating with AHB. There are rare instances where an AHB queen will move into a calmer Italian hive, kill that queen, and take over. But otherwise, if AHB is in your area, then your only real risk is a virgin queen mating with a few AHB drones, thus causing her to put off some mean bees. But keep in mind, the queen will mate with 10-20 drones. Let's say 20, and she mates with only one AHB drone. So statistically, 1 in every 20 of her worker bee offspring will be half AHB. I believe I have witnessed this in a hive I inherited. I could go out there one minute, walk right up to the hives with no issues. Go back hours later, and a bee met me coming, 30 feet away, and stung my arm before I even knew what happened. I have no proof they were AHB, but certainly there were a few bad apples in the bunch. I got rid of that hive, and the associated aggression.