Video Documentary: Are Govt & Pesticide Industry Responsible for Bee Deaths?

[borderbeeman]

Superb video documentry on the partnership of government (EPA) and poison manufacturers - which has generated $billions - at the expense of killing off more than 10 million American bee colonies since 2003

http://www.linktv.org/video/8123/kil...responsible?ef

This was made by a team from Earth Focus channel and is hosted on LINK TV.

Includes interviews ith many important bee-famers, most of the key scientific researchers and a good many of the leading campaigners against systemic pesticides.

Please watch and pass on.


Killing Bees: Are Government and Industry Responsible?


(Earth Focus: Episode 44) Honey bees, the essential pollinators of many major US crops, have been dying off in massive numbers since 2006. This threatens the American agricultural system and the one in twelve American jobs that depends on it. There is growing evidence that a new class of pesticides -- nerve toxins called neonicotinoids, which are used on most US crops including almost all corn -- may be toxic to bees. The Environmental Protection Agency allowed neonicotinoids on the market without adequate tests to determine their toxicity to bees. Environmentalists want neonicotinoids banned until needed safety tests are done. While the US government is slow to act and neonicotinoid sales reap billions for the chemical industry, bees continue to die. Earth Focus reports.

[wildbranch2007]

Includes interviews ith many of the leading campaigners against systemic pesticides.

I'm sure these people will give an unbiased opinion.

[borderbeeman]

Well your comment implies that you are commenting even BEFORE you have watched the documentary.
Are you being unbiased and open-minded? It sounds like your mind is pretty well made up before you even bothered to click on the link?

[jim lyon]

Are you being unbiased and open-minded? ?

Are you?

[wildbranch2007]

when you and stromnessbees (who I assume must be one of your gang) start a thread I don't need to read the links although I do, your side post no facts, just unsuported claims, I have better thing to do than listen to gibberish. If I was you, I would ban all uses of chemicals on all agricultural product, so we could export even more food to you, or not.

[Bill Davis]

I certainly don't trust the ethics of most company's in America, if they have a chance to make money and pay fines later they will. I don't believe these products can be healthy for our bees and I am sure there are farmers just like beekeepers who don't follow the directions when using chemicals, but if they are used as widespread as they are shouldn't we all be feeling the effects.
Shouldn't beekeepers who are exposed to these chemicals have massive die offs each year?

[jim lyon]

I don't really think illegal rates are a problem Bill. With neonics there are no dosages to calculate at least by the user, the seed itself is treated. Foliar spraying, on the other hand, does require mixing and sprayer calibrations. This has greatly improved in recent years, any farmer that wants to apply spray must take classes and pass a test to get certified. Despite that, the stuff they are using is designed to kill most every insect it contacts and applicators are often dealing with narrow treatment windows because of wind and other environmental conditions. Even the most diligent are probably going to kill a few bees in some situations.

[D Coates]

when you and stromnessbees (who I assume must be one of your gang) start a thread I don't need to read the links although I do, your side post no facts, just unsuported claims, I have better thing to do than listen to gibberish.

I've learned that posts from Stromm and Border are heavy on unsubstantiated and hyped up claims with very similar axes to grind. If anything, they do themselves a disservice because anyone who actually looks at what they post objectively realizes this and discounts them accordingly.

[Kieck]

I'm curious, borderbeeman, what's your stake in this issue in the United States? You seem to be a staunch activist about the topic in the U. S., yet your location is listed as Edinburgh, UK.

[Michael Bush]

Why does it never seem to occur to anyone that OUR food (humans) is now contaminated with neonicotinoids, not to mention Bt toxin. You can't wash them off. They permeate the entire plant. The Bt toxin is now in the genes and in every cell. The neonicontinoids also permeate the entire plant but by a different mechanism. That's the principle of how it works. That is it's mechanism. Then we eat the plant. I like my bees, but I'm much more concerned about my grandchildren.

[wildbranch2007]

Shouldn't beekeepers who are exposed to these chemicals have massive die offs each year?

now I am getting worried, not only am I old but I have to watch out for the neonics
but actually what I have read said and I can't quote it doesn't have any affect on humans, but now that does bring up an interesting topic for another thread. are beeks human

[jim lyon]

You have no monopoly on concern for our grandchildren Mr. Bush. in a perfect world there would be no bad insects eating our crops and plenty of food for everyone. If you have proof that our grandchildren are being affected by these systemic pesticides please provide it. if you have proof that systemic pesticides are more damaging than our past widespread use of foliar pesticides please provide that as well.

[wildbranch2007]

I'm curious, borderbeeman, what's your stake in this issue in the United States? You seem to be a staunch activist about the topic in the U. S., yet your location is listed as Edinburgh, UK.

I'm starting to think that they (borderbeeman and strombees) actually work for the chemical companies and are getting us to prove that they don't affect the bees. There are enough people on the forums in Europe keeping track of borderbeeman that he's trying to inflict us with his jibberish.

[Kieck]

Why does it never seem to occur to anyone that OUR food (humans) is now contaminated with neonicotinoids, ... -Michael Bush

Excellent point, although I think quite a number of things need to be added. All classes of pesticides should be included, not just neonicotinoids. Herbicides show up in drinking water samples, insecticides are fogged into the air to target mosquitoes, fungicides are applied widely to cereal crops.

And byproducts of manufacturing find their way throughout the environment, too. Perfluoro chemicals show up in the blood of arctic marine mammals, as well as in the blood of most Americans.

[jim lyon]

Excellent point, although I think quite a number of things need to be added. All classes of pesticides should be included, not just neonicotinoids. Herbicides show up in drinking water samples, insecticides are fogged into the air to target mosquitoes, fungicides are applied widely to cereal crops.

And byproducts of manufacturing find their way throughout the environment, too. Perfluoro chemicals show up in the blood of arctic marine mammals, as well as in the blood of most Americans.

Good points all. Wouldn't we all want to live in a world without risk. I have long been an advocate of less may well be better than more and I practice that in our beekeeping as well. We as a society have an obligation to make intelligent choices when risk intersects with need. But for someone to reduce this argument to one of caring vs. not caring I think is unfair.

[deknow]

I'm starting to think that they (borderbeeman and strombees) actually work for the chemical companies and are getting us to prove that they don't affect the bees. There are enough people on the forums in Europe keeping track of borderbeeman that he's trying to inflict us with his jibberish.

"It’s not enough to be able to lie with a straight face; anybody with enough gall to raise on a busted flush can do that. The first way to lie artistically is to tell the truth — but not all of it. The second way involves telling the truth, too, but is harder: Tell the exact truth and maybe all of it…but tell it so unconvincingly that your listener is sure you are lying."
Heinlin

[Bill Davis]

now I am getting worried, not only am I old but I have to watch out for the neonics
but actually what I have read said and I can't quote it doesn't have any affect on humans, but now that does bring up an interesting topic for another thread. are beeks human

Thanks Mike I studied my post for minutes looking for the best way to word things and I still messed it up. I was talking about the bees dying off ,not the beekeeeper.
But we shouldn't be suprised that all this stuff ends up in our food and water. How bad can it be we just get cancer a bit earlier in our lives, more autistic children, no big deal.

[camero7]

Foliar spraying, on the other hand, does require mixing and sprayer calibrations.

It also often mixes fungicides with pesticides which may make each one more deadly. I am much more concerned about fungicides than neonics. I have seen some of my hives crash after an orchard was sprayed with a fungicide [maybe pesticide residue in the tanks?] I have bees very close to neonic corn and those bees are fine. Just my observations, coupled with every well done study has never shown any damage from neonics except at corn planting time with air driven planters and talc dust.

[VeggieGardener]

You have no monopoly on concern for our grandchildren Mr. Bush. in a perfect world there would be no bad insects eating our crops and plenty of food for everyone. If you have proof that our grandchildren are being affected by these systemic pesticides please provide it. if you have proof that systemic pesticides are more damaging than our past widespread use of foliar pesticides please provide that as well.

But how much concern do the chemical companies have for our grandchildren? In a perfect world there would be a natural balance of insects and soil organisms to control "bad" insects, and food production would probably be small-scale, local, and chemical-free for the most part.

Jim, I actually think it should work the other way around... with the chemical companies providing such a high degree of proof before introducing products! Wasn't the past widespread use of foliar pesticides that you referred to considered safe and effective at the time? Ten years from now we may look at the current crop of chemicals and practices in the same light as we now do with those.

[jim lyon]

Jim, I actually think it should work the other way around... with the chemical companies providing such a high degree of proof before introducing products! Wasn't the past widespread use of foliar pesticides that you referred to considered safe and effective at the time? Ten years from now we may look at the current crop of chemicals and practices in the same light as we now do with those.

I won't disagree at all that the bar should be set very high for the introduction of new chemicals and there have been cases where the system has shown some flaws. Foliar pesticides were never considered safe for bees, they were pretty much designed to kill insects that came into contact with them. We had whole yards of bees wiped out in the 70's because of alfalfa seed spraying, it's an ugly sight. Perhaps you are correct in wondering if we might find something more in the future that would clearly point out that neonics should be banned but in reality all we are doing is theorizing. In the meantime, though, there is no doubt ongoing research on even more targeted pesticides, let us all hope that safety for applicators, safety for the public and safety for bees will all be considered before they are approved. Government workers and chemical companies have families as well