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Indoor wintering in northern climates on a commercial scale

15K views 38 replies 16 participants last post by  Ian 
#1 ·
I read about indoor wintering on a commercial scale in "The Hive and the Honey Bee". According to the book, this is a common practice in Canada. Does anyone here have any experience with large scale indoor wintering? I currently migrate my hives to the south for the winter, but this is getting more expensive each year. It seems to me that a building to winter in would "pay for itself" in just a few years in transportation costs savings alone. Being in central Wisconsin, the concept seems to have merit. I realize most going south are also sending their bees to California for almonds. I'm looking to winter the bees here in Wisconsin, and forgo going to California. The idea of getting sprayed in California, like others I know, or spreading pests and diseases to my hives outweigh the dollars. We are a growing business looking to grow to the 1000 hive mark. Outdoor wintering, and the annual mortality rates associated with it are not acceptable to me. Thanks for any input you may have.

Wisnewbee
 
#4 ·
Wisnewbee: This topic has been discussed several times on beesource, a search should give you a fair amount of info. I don't know if survival rates are much different indoors than outdoors. I do think you can winter smaller hives indoors with greater survival rates.

sweetacres: I'm moving my bees indoors this week and next and typically they will only be moved out during the second week of April. They do fine without a cleansing flight but sure seem anxious to take one by April.
 
#8 ·
Thousands of hives are stored inside buildings in Idaho each year, most are sent to ca for pollination in Feb. They started using old potato sheds years ago and now many people have built building designed for the storage of hives.

this not anything new to the indusry, but is growing in use.
 
#13 ·
I appreciate the information provided in all your posts. I have read, with great interest, all the links you provided. I have also visited Ian's website to view his pictures, and videos. I especially liked the guy doing the dance while using the Easy Loader. Nice job Ian! For my fellowbeekeepers in Canada, do you think the weather environment here in Wisconsin, USA would be advantagous to wintering indoors? It does get pretty cold here. Snow that falls in November/December doesn't usually melt until April. I would be constructing a building specially designed for indoor wintering. I had intended to use a passive system of buried pipes for air intake to warm the very cold air at the peak of winter, and cool the air during the warmer periods. Essentually using the ground a meter down as a very large heat sink/thermal mass. This air would then be ducted to all parts of the building to insure even temerature control. I was intending to use 4 exhausts fans to control the air being drawn into the building. Each fan would be controlled by a seperate thermostat. as the temperature rises, additional exhaust fans would turn on. The building would be insulated (R19 minimum) and light tight. Considering the costs involved in building such a facility, I would appreciate some input from people who do this. Would any of you be willing to take this discussion to a more indepth conversation via email?
Thanks for your input.

Bill
Wisnewbee
 
#15 ·
I got a quote from General Steel building for a 14x55x100 building. It's a kit. I supply the contractor or do the labor myself. The price of the kit is about $34,000. Concrete and labor not included. You're probably pretty close for a final cost.

Bil
 
#16 ·
you bet Bill! Sounds like you have the concept down.
As for temperature,.? I cant comment on that, I really dont know what your weather is like there. Here in Manitoba once winter falls we usually dont see temps on the plus side for months at a time.
The real challenge is keeping the temp down during warm spells.
Keeping the building warm is never an issue, the bees do that. My heater is pretty much just a decoration.
Im putting mine in now, and they will not see the day of light for another 5 months. I always figure if I would have one month less to hold them, it would be nice.
You probably will not hold them for 5 months, so then you have to decide how many months you will be storing them for. And then you can justify your cost advantages. If they are only going to be held for 2-3 months, you might as well winter them outside. But if your looking at 4-5 months, and sheltering them from wind and cold, indoor is the way to go
 
#18 ·
>>I especially liked the guy doing the dance while using the Easy Loader

ya, that was the first year we got the lift. He was very happy not to be lifting the boxes anymore. haha and so was I. Those boxes are stacked 5 high on some hives, packed full of honey. I dont know if your familiar with the Canadian honey season but everything happens very fast here. Within weeks. We tend to fall behind with our work, and in the video we were behind in our work. Those boxes are weighing 50 lbs each. You can see he is struggling a little bit walking the boxes over. Its because he is moving more than his body weight of honey. Ha Ha
 
#21 ·
I live about 5 hours north of Ian...or there abouts. We winter outdoors. I would love to try indoor wintering. Maybe a bit easier on the pocket book in feed costs, wrap costs, and live versus death.

That said, until I try indoor, I think i would perfer outdoor. (Maybe that is cause all i know). Our bees get some cleansing flights during most winters. Outdoor bees are still wrapped when the indoor wintered are taken out of storage. This is the one main advantage over indoor wintering. The spring still has some harsh days ahead. Outdoor bees are climate adjusted, indoor bees get a bit of a shock. When the indoor bees are pulled out sometime in early April, ours are still wrapped until end of April maybe early May depending on the type of spring.
In the end though, when we compare notes, most years our losses are close to the same. Indoor the bees come out of winter better, but after the spring dwindle from the adjusting to the cold we end up just about the same...
 
#24 ·
Yeah, I would suggest the washing of trucks and the purchase of an extra washing machine for your bee clothes should be factored into the cost of wintering indoors :eek: I am really intrigued to hear how well many Canadians fare with indoor wintering. I tried it a couple winters up in central Minnesota and it never seemed like the indoor bees were ever as good as the outdoor bees and that was during some pretty brutal winters. Factor in having to move the hives in, in the fall and finding just the right conditions to move them out in the spring and it all added up to something I don't care to do again. Of course that was long before we had forklifts.
 
#25 ·
Bees won't fly indoors if its dark.

In fact, there are basically 2 reasons bees will poop inside. If the wintering room gets too warm they will start crawling or if the bees have dysentery. Normally with dysentery it will be the front of the hives that are covered. Either way, major loses will occur. The inside of the wintering room should have very little if any bee poop if done properly.

Jim, I agree spring is the trickiest part of indoor wintering. Not getting the wintering room too warm but waiting long enough for the spring yards to be accessible can be tricky. The spring yard can be very spotted but we try to keep our truck away the first day or two.
 
#26 ·
I am sure you guys are way more sophisticated in the way you go about it than I was. We just set up a big exhaust fan that kicked in when the temps got up to around freezing (don't recall the exact temp). Didn't have any means of cooling them so we just had to watch the forecast and get them out of there before any late winter early spring warm up occurred. It seemed like they got on such a huge cleansing flight when they finally got out that drifting was a problem.
 
#28 ·
I dont know what Allen thinks but I dont think drifting is a problem at all. I put the bees out in yards of 200, and I never see any problems with drifting. There is quite the buzz the first couple of days though, one of my favorite days of the year!
And Jim, I absolutely agree with you. Its alot of work, and finding the right day to set them out sure seems like we are working on a touch and go basis. Like Tammy suggested the difference between indoor and outdoor most years is pretty much the same. Everyone has their own reason to winter inside.
My reason to winter inside was because of how much I hated wrapping hives. And when I say hated, I really mean I HATE wrapping hives. I could never seem to keep the mice out of my wraps, and for a good week in the fall and another week in the spring I was nose deep in mouse stuff....
Skunks, raccoon, mice, ....
I find moving hives inside so much more relaxed and pleasant. I have a skidder and an Ezyloader to manage the lifting work. Couple of days to move them in, couple of nights to move them out.
 
#29 ·
I know that Eric Olson out of Selah wintered his bees last year at a temp controlled 40 degrees. The only ones that he lost, he forgot to fill the feeders on in the fall. He hopes to do better this year.
 
#30 ·
Bill

A lot of the published articles make indoor wintering and the venting associated with it sound complicated. Its not rocket science. If bees survive in a snowdrift outdoors, a controlled environment indoors with a bit of venting is adequate. The most difficult aspect of indoor wintering is keeping the bees cool enough when outdoor temperatures get warm. Ideally a cooling unit should be used for this but most people simply shovel in snow or if the building is well insulated, cool the room down at night and then don't draw warm air in during the day. Good over head fans that provide lots of air movement also help in keeping the bees in the hives. With the setup you are planning you are probably more sophisticated than most out there.

My setup is very basic. An exhaust fan, three intakes with light traps, a circulating fan and a car block heater timer for a 16 x 40 x 60 building. I basically adjust the timer according to the weather and forecast. In my last building I had more complicated controls but prefer this system. A well insulated building makes temperature control much easier.
 
#31 ·
I agree that survival rates between indoor or outdoor wintering often aren't much different. Smaller hives fair better indoors but often die anyways when moved out. I do think indoor hives require somewhat less feed and make running singles easier if that is a goal.

I have had some drifting problems a couple of times. I don't think the size of the yard is an issue here -- though the mess is much greater with a big yard. If the first morning after the bees are move out is quite warm and a strong wind is present then there is a very good chance drifting will occur. The hives on the side of the yard where the wind is coming from will become very large and the others somewhat sad. If they get their cleansing flight done, I haven't seen them drift after that.
 
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