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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    28,287

    Default Randy Oliver's Request

    Randy Oliver is requesting that Treatment Free Beekeepers monitor varroa mite levels in their hives monthly, taking the samples in his prescribed manner. Maybe some of you would like to participate. Jeanette has Posted the link below.
    Last edited by sqkcrk; 10-24-2012 at 11:27 AM.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia
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    105

    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    Is this the link you were looking for, Mark? http://scientificbeekeeping.com/figh...mite-sampling/
    Jeanette
    HiveTasks Software for beekeepers

  3. #3
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    Thanks Jeanette.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    4,942

    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    i would also like to read kim's 'epistle'. can anyone link me to it, or can it be pasted here?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  5. #5
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    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    i'm like steveng. other than pulling drone larvae, i haven't been counting mites. maybe i should be.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  6. #6
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    See Daniel Y's Post below for a link to Kim Flottum's Post on his ezezine.
    Last edited by sqkcrk; 10-24-2012 at 11:29 AM.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  7. #7
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    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    many thanks mark.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,178

    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    This is copied and pasted from http://home.ezezine.com/1636/ in regard to the request.

    I like the idea but and will look into contacting him for starting collections in the spring. I don't do the sticky board thing mainly because I don't have a screened bottom board. I did pull drone larva this year though.

    Thanks for bringing this to attention Mark.


    Treatment Free Beekeepers – Help Collect Data

    From Randy Oliver

    Hi all treatment free beekeepers. How about helping me collect data on the actual mite levels in your hives over the course of the year?

    Here's the simple protocol:
    Alcohol wash is most accurate. Can do with only a level 1/3 cup of bees, which is slightly over 200 bees. Follow procedure at http://scientificbeekeeping.com/sick...oring-methods/

    The sample should be taken from the same place in the hive each time—He prefers the first non-brood frame adjacent to brood, since less chance of getting a queen.

    Samples should be taken each month, at about the same time of month. All samples from the same hive(s), and kept track of for hive number. Two or more hives would be most desirable.

    Such results would allow me to plot the mite population curve for the year in your hives, which would be of great interest for nontreated colonies that survive.

    Record hive number(s), date, and mite count for each sample.

    Send me the data and location after you have collected for a year. We'll make the data available to anybody interested on the web page, and let you know when it gets posted.

    Randy Oliver
    Grass Valley, CA
    www.ScientificBeekeeping.com
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  9. #9
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    Thanks Daniel Y. I don't have your computer skills.
    Last edited by sqkcrk; 10-24-2012 at 08:42 AM.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
    Posts
    3,757

    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    Mark, in fairness to Randy, you ought to go back and read his page again. He does not ask for a donation to cover his time reading emails...he asks for a donation to answer beekeeping questions. I'm not Randy's biggest fan, but his wording and intent on this matter is clear to anyone that takes the time to actually read what he wrote. Those that do not take the time to read should not be commenting on what they decided not to read.
    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/contact-me/

    Contact Me

    I appreciate when readers notify me of glitches or typos on this site, or suggested improvements. I also appreciate discussion with experienced beekeepers and researchers on fine points, and will ask your permission to add comments which I feel add to the site.

    Unfortunately, I do not have the time to answer basic beginning beekeeper questions, as I am not funded by any agency. If email me with questions about beekeeping, please have the courtesy to donate to this site to cover my time. Thank you!

    randy “at” randyoliver.com

  11. #11
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    Jul 2010
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    perfect, thanks dan.

    regarding a donation, i don't think it is required, but i send a small one each year. small price to pay for all the great info.

    i bought the double jarred mite washer last year, but haven't used it yet.
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    **
    Last edited by sqkcrk; 10-24-2012 at 08:43 AM.
    Mark Berninghausen
    The answers are the end. The questions are the journey. Journey on.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
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    5,113

    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    Keep it civil.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  14. #14
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    First of all, many (if not most) treatment free beekeepers are treatment free, at least in part, "to help the bees". A request to such beekeepers to do monthly alcohol washes will be ignored by many (most?), simply because they don't want to kill 200 young adult bees from each hive each month....i certainly don't...and if I did, I'm perfectly capable of producing my own graph.

    Secondly, it is hard to put treatment free beekeepers in a group. There is no consensus on what treatment free means, and Randy doesn't seem to have specified what he is specifically interested in ...except bees from beekeepers that claim to be treatment free. Heck, Randy has claimed that his own small cell treatment free bees survived because of the off gassing of HSC frames. If he really believes that, then a TF beekeeper with HSC in the hive would in fact, be using a chemical treatment in the hive....not treatment free....not helpful in a discussion or analysis of treatment free bees.

    It's also worth noting (if you read Randy's report on his HSC experiment), that he has not done mite counts on his own small cell hives (at least as of the most recent update on his site).

    deknow (who finds it offensively "unscientific" to delete one's own words in a public discussion)

  15. #15
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    Sep 2005
    Location
    Greensboro, North Carolina
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    Heck, Randy has claimed that his own small cell treatment free bees survived because of the off gassing of HSC frames.
    He didn't have ANY statistical number of surviving hives from that study.

    "Unfortunately, all but one of the control colonies perished at the onset of cold weather, and most of the HSC colonies followed suit in February."

    "I had planned to continue with this trial through the next season, but the untimely collapse of the colonies unfortunately prevented further data collection."

    He did recycle the HSC frames in with the rest of his colonies, and that is the subject of his 2010 update, but as it relates to the study, most perished for "unrelated reasons." I also do not believe that he attributed any "success" from off gassing. He merely suggested that it was one possibility.

  16. #16
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    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    46,752

    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    I try to raise bees. I don't like killing them, especially on purpose...
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,963

    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Bush View Post
    I try to raise bees. I don't like killing them, especially on purpose...
    I don't like killing bees either. Until there is a way of accurately assessing Varroa in a hive without killing bees, there isn't a lot of choice if treatment free beekeepers decide to participate in Randy's study. Now beekeepers are an independent lot, and there are some who will proudly say "study? I don't need no stinkin' study. My bees do ok"; my concern, and the reason I will be gathering data for the study, is that all too often there are only anecdotal reports of treatment free beekeeping results, causing folks looking for scientific information to equate Treatment Free Beekeepers with, I don't know, telephone callers to late night talk radio?

    I see Randy's request as an opportunity for treatment free beekeeping to get honestly measured, and just maybe, go mainstream.
    Master Beekeeper (EAS) and Master Gardener (U Maine CE) www.beeberrywoods.com

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Millbury, MA, USA
    Posts
    1,933

    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    Seems to me that no treatment beekeepers don't mind letting mites kill bees, why do they recoil at killing a couple hundred to see what's really happening in their hives.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,113

    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    We do mind.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Nehawka, Nebraska USA
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    Default Re: Randy Oliver's Request

    >Seems to me that no treatment beekeepers don't mind letting mites kill bees

    I haven't had a problem with Varroa for a decade now. Mites aren't killing my bees. Of course we mind if our bees are dying. That doesn't mean that the best course of action is to do something even if it's wrong.

    In reality our actions often have the opposite effect of what we expect. When people decided to poison the prairie dogs to get less prairie dogs, the results were quite the opposite. They poisoned some prairie dogs, to be sure, but the end result was less of all of their predators (black footed ferrets, burrowing owls, rattle snakes, hawks, eagles, coyotes...) resulting in a population explosion of prairie dogs. Many things, including treating for mites, are like this in that the result is not what you thought you were doing directly. The secondary effects come back to haunt you.
    Michael Bush bushfarms.com/bees.htm "Everything works if you let it." ThePracticalBeekeeper.com 40y 200h 37yTF

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