American Farm Bureau Announcement

[BMAC]

Our government constantly takes advantage of its regulations they have on us. Why shouldn't we take full advantage of regulations they loosen? I personally would like to not have to worry about having a class A CDL (as DOT requires due to over 10K capacity of trailer) whenever I hook my gooseneck trailer up to my F450. If I can get away with that just by having a live colony of bees on my truck then I may permantly mount a beehive to my F450.

[sqkcrk]

What if you registered your trailer for 9,900 lbs? Would you give up your CDL?

See what I did there? It often seems like we are trying to figure out ways of getting around regulations. I am all for taking advantage of anything we are entitled to.

I recall a cpl of years ago we hgad a DOT person come to the Fall Mtng of the eshpa to talk to us about DOT regs. Once he finished giving his talk, all of the questions were "If I do this can I do that?" Questions about how to get by w/out complying, not "How do I comply?"

Just interesting. That's all.

I'll have to read this Announcement over a number of times before I fully understand it. I guess it couldn't be in more simple language, could it?

[BMAC]

I like where you went with that, I am not really looking on how to avoid complying with the law, I am seeing if I need to comply with the law or if the law doesn't apply to me. Lawyers exploit laws daily. Why shouldn't we exploit them if we can?

Its sort of like owning a handgun in NYS. Black Powder hand guns are still hand guns, however you do not need a pistol permit to own a black powder hand gun. Any smokeless powder hand guns require the owner to have a pistol permit.

The announcement is fairly vague with its writing. Im sure so it can be interpretted many different ways.

According to DOT they dont care what its registered for as far as being < 10K, its the carrying capacity of the trailer they care about as far as CDL is concerned.

[sqkcrk]

And who says what the carrying capacity is? The manufacturer?

If you have an F-450 w/ a 10K Gooseneck, unless you overload the Gooseneck there is almost no way you can run w/ a total GVW of 26,000 lbs or more, can you? I have a 2005 F-450 and pull a trailer w/ a Bobcat and some other stuff on it and I don't have a CDL and have never been told I needed one. Who told you you needed one? Or did you have one already and would have one regardless?

[sqkcrk]

FMC Safety Regulations Pocketbook Page 376 Subpart A-General
391.2 General exemptions (b) Apairian industries. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who is operating a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a beekeeper engaged in the seasonal transportation of bees.

Just FYI

[jim lyon]

Mark: your trailer should have a gvw stamped on it. If that number is under 10,000 lbs. and if the truck your are pulling it with is under 26,001 (you can combine them to get a max. Of 36,001)then you previously didn't need a CDL unless you were more than 150 miles (I think) from home. That has now apparently changed. I am going to guess that you probably should have had one in the past but shouldn't need one now.

[sqkcrk]

My F-450's GVWR is 16,000 lbs. My Locke trailer is and always has been registered for 9,900 lbs. There may be a GVW Stamp somewhere on it, but I don't know where and no DOT Inspector has ever asked about it or searched for it. Not arguing, just stating.

Planning on avoiding a CDL for the comfort of my fellow beekeepers. lol

[BMAC]

And who says what the carrying capacity is? The manufacturer?

If you have an F-450 w/ a 10K Gooseneck, unless you overload the Gooseneck there is almost no way you can run w/ a total GVW of 26,000 lbs or more, can you? I have a 2005 F-450 and pull a trailer w/ a Bobcat and some other stuff on it and I don't have a CDL and have never been told I needed one. Who told you you needed one? Or did you have one already and would have one regardless?

I dont have a CDL nor do I plan to get a CDL. My Gooseneck trailer has 3 6lbs lbs axles under it. No I have never been over 25.5K hauling bees. The DOT inspector that come and did my DOt audit last spring told me I need a CDL to pull that trailer down the road legally. I have never been bothered on the road, just stating what he told me.

Even if a trailer does not have a manufacturers tag on it its not terribly difficult to determine carrying capacity.

[BMAC]

FMC Safety Regulations Pocketbook Page 376 Subpart A-General
391.2 General exemptions (b) Apairian industries. The rules in this part do not apply to a driver who is operating a commercial motor vehicle controlled and operated by a beekeeper engaged in the seasonal transportation of bees.

Just FYI

I was just browsing that from the feds site. They state that 391.15 (e) and (g) still apply however. I guess you better stop texting the bees on the trailer and drive!

[Barry]

Planning on avoiding a CDL for the comfort of my fellow beekeepers. lol

Not sure why Mark. If I made my living from bees and moved them across states like you do, I'd be out of pickup trucks and into a heavy truck requiring a CDL.

[jim lyon]

Maybe we were just fortunate out here but I found getting a CDL fairly easy to do. A couple hours studying for the test which I am not remembering as terribly difficult and then a short trip around town with a truck and I was in business.
I don't know about that Barry. You can do a lot of work with a sub 26K truck, I don't own anything heavier than that. I just love to load the big rigs to the max and make them earn the $2.85 to $3.00 a mile that they are charging nowadays.

[Barry]

It seems you and Mark run your bees differently. Mark is always trucking his bees here and there. If that is routine, wouldn't a heavier truck serve one better? It seems he is trying to avoid the CDL, when it might actually be a better fit for him. Are you using 550/650 size trucks?

[jim lyon]

Were not doing things a lot different than Mark just on a bigger scale. Up north we were using mostly a 14' bed and a 20' bed to pool bees into 4 different localized holding yards to minimize our driving. Down south we unloaded and scattered all the bees with one 14' bed. We use pretty large yards through the winter down south and arent hauling any more than 10 miles. Bees dont care if they are crowded a bit through the winter and it sure makes shipping to California easier. In the spring we like to limit nuc yards to what can be hauled with a 5500 on a 14' bed which is 140 singles. I took some good pics in Texas this fall maybe I should try my luck at posting a few.

[swarm_trapper]

please do Jim!

[jim lyon]

http://s470.beta.photobucket.com/use...%20fall%202012
Not ideal but here's a link that should work.

[sqkcrk]

In the spring we like to limit nuc yards to what can be hauled with a 5500 on a 14' bed which is 140 singles.

You sure you don't mean 120 singles? I get ten pallets on the deck of my F-450 w/ a 14 ft bed. 14 ft 3 inches actually.

[sjvbee]

Nice looking bee's Jim

[sqkcrk]

http://s470.beta.photobucket.com/use...%20fall%202012
Not ideal but here's a link that should work.

Didn't work for me.

[jim lyon]

Didn't work for me.

Must be password protected. I am not as tech savvy as you Mark. Let me try something else.

[jim lyon]

You sure you don't mean 120 singles? I get ten pallets on the deck of my F-450 w/ a 14 ft bed. 14 ft 3 inches actually.

Actually I meant 160. 40 per layer 4 high. Sorry.