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  1. #41

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    At age 61 I have had many adult years to observe human nature. From those observations I have formed any number of prejudices. One is that people who are suspicious by their nature should be watched carefully. Another is that people who are trusting by their nature are usually trustworthy. Ive had the opportunity to talk with Jerry Hayes on a number of occasions and he always struck me as a trusting individual, so I would presume his integrity unless proven otherwise.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Where is the "Like" button?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  3. #43
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    Aug 2005
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    Washington County, Maine
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Where is the "Like" button?
    <<LIKE>>

    I'm pressing it too!
    Master Beekeeper (EAS) and Master Gardener (U Maine CE) www.beeberrywoods.com

  4. #44
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    ...I am only suspicious that Jerry has integrity, and that the system of carrots and sticks within the Monsanto organization operates as intended........thus I'm suspicious that the man will do his job.

    deknow

  5. #45
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    Aug 2005
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    @Dean - I've thought long and hard how to say this - I hope sticking to known facts will convey what I want it to.

    The Jerry Hayes presentation in Maine was an articulate, well presented pre-sales talk. Do I want to rush out and buy the product? No.

    Am I interested in learning what they are working on? Yes.

    I felt Jerry was a much more dynamic speaker than some of the others on the program.

    Dave Hackenberg told a group at MOFGA's Common Ground Country Fair that the neo-nics run is just about over, that patent protection for them is fading fast, and that the ag chemical companies are hard at work on next generation pesticides. I want to know more about these next generation pesticides and it appears that Monsanto has some eggs in the Beeologic basket - thus I'll at least listen to Jerry, who certainly has my respect for his beekeeping abilities. And yes I know a sales pitch when I hear one.

    Context for intelligent decision making is important. I may not be smart, but I wasn't born yesterday.
    Master Beekeeper (EAS) and Master Gardener (U Maine CE) www.beeberrywoods.com

  6. #46
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    Jul 2006
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Andrew, I think that was very well put.

    I don't think, however, that the best understanding of the technology and the implications will come from listening to Jerry...I think some of the discussions here on beesource with WLC contributing have been interesting to me...I feel I do understand that the end product (WRT bees) will be a vaccine that is taylord to the diseases/pests du jour (probably made up from a few thousand samples taken in the almonds each year), and that the unintended consequence (or perhaps intended) is the removal of any kind of selection pressure towards disease/pest resistance. The monsanto juiced bees, unemcumbered by the need to expend energy in defending against disease, outcompete anything being bred for robust survival (by beekeepers or in feral populations) (even if the effects of the monsanto juice wear off over time).....and poof, the only way to keep bees alive is with monsanto juice du jour.

    WRT the technology in general, it as huge implications throughout all of agriculture and medicine....which is why monsanto bought beeologics....bees are just the proof of concept of the technology because CCD was in the news, and there was a virus that could be targeted (IAPV).

    Personally, I think when we cheat the deck so much that we can simply eliminate pests and disease, nature (human or otherwise) will come from some unexpected direction to zero out the equations.

    For those still reading, and who heard this year about the surprise of the corn rootworm developing resistance to monsanto's bt corn, here is a little ditty from Michael Pollan....from 1998 talking about the inevitablity of the resistance, and the attitudes of Monsanto....
    http://michaelpollan.com/articles-ar...in-the-garden/

    Monsanto executives offer two basic responses to criticism of their Bt crops. The first is that their voluntary resistance-management plans will work, though the company’s definition of success will come as small consolation to an organic farmer: Monsanto scientists told me that if all goes well, resistance can be postponed for 30 years. (Some scientists believe it will come in three to five years.) The second response is more troubling. In St. Louis, I met with Jerry Hjelle, Monsanto’s vice president for regulatory affairs. Hjelle told me that resistance should not unduly concern us since ”there are a thousand other Bt’s out there” — other insecticidal proteins. ”We can handle this problem with new products,” he said. ”The critics don’t know what we have in the pipeline.”

    And then Hjelle uttered two words that I thought had been expunged from the corporate vocabulary a long time ago: ”Trust us.”

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
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    Ft Myers, Fl 33967
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    When Jerry Hayes was head of the Apiary Inspection Dept for Florida, he went to the head of the Pest Control Dept and requested that honey bee's be reclassified as pests. This means that bees could not be collected by bee keepers any more and would have to be killed by pest control persons. He then quit and went to work for Monsanto. Coincidence?

    The head of the Pest Control Dept Mr Michael Page has revoked the agreement with the bee keeprs and it is now illegal to remove bees from a structure unless yoiu are a Licensed Pest contol person.

    Tell me again that Mr Hayes has the best interests of bees at heart so's I can understand better.
    Regards
    Joe

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Panama City, Florida, USA
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    591

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    I know another beekeeper that is quick to walk out of a talk if he doesn't like where it's going....not to be rude, but he would like to not say anything bad about anyone, _and_ he would like to be honest when asked what he thought of the presentation....leaving the talk allows for both.

    deknow
    Yet you know he left....


    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    "Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus".

    deknow

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    761

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Far more important IMHO, please ask the VSBA them why they continue to hoard funds and what the plans are for the ever growing treasury? I have about a zillion ideas.
    karla

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by jredburn View Post
    When Jerry Hayes was head of the Apiary Inspection Dept for Florida, he went to the head of the Pest Control Dept and requested that honey bee's be reclassified as pests. This means that bees could not be collected by bee keepers any more and would have to be killed by pest control persons. He then quit and went to work for Monsanto. Coincidence?

    The head of the Pest Control Dept Mr Michael Page has revoked the agreement with the bee keeprs and it is now illegal to remove bees from a structure unless yoiu are a Licensed Pest contol person.

    Tell me again that Mr Hayes has the best interests of bees at heart so's I can understand better.
    Regards
    Joe
    As a Public Servant he is responsible for taking into consideration what is best for everyone in the State, not just the beekeepers. With AHB in FL how else was he supposed to act? Though I wonder why it was him and not someone higher up. Unless the chain of command requested that Jerry make the request.

    Would you want to face the law suits if while removing an AHB colony from a structure a mass stinging attack killed a bystander?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  11. #51
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    May 2010
    Location
    Knox Co, Ohio, USA
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    857

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    Personally, I think when we cheat the deck so much that we can simply eliminate pests and disease, nature (human or otherwise) will come from some unexpected direction to zero out the equations.

    For those still reading, and who heard this year about the surprise of the corn rootworm developing resistance to monsanto's bt corn, here is a little ditty from Michael Pollan....from 1998 talking about the inevitablity of the resistance, and the attitudes of Monsanto....
    http://michaelpollan.com/articles-ar...in-the-garden/
    Dean,

    I remember when Bt corn came out thinking to myself I wonder how many farmers are going to follow the recommendations fully? The pests will find ways to overcome, we will not readicate them. We can hope to develope management protocols, IPM, to minimize their impact below economic thresholds.



    The best way to change a pest is to try and eradicate it!

    Tom

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    2,658

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    What about when next to peanuts AstroBee? Been to the PPP Festival this year?
    We have limited amount of peanuts around where my colonies are located. The big crops are cotton, soybeans, and corn. Yes, the original home of Planters Peanuts is no longer the big producer it once was. I have one small peanut yard about 1/2 mile away and haven't seen any issues.

    We missed the PPP fest this year, but have been there several times before - I really like the setting! Did you attend? If you do in the future please let me know and I'll stop by, or you can swing by the house for lunch. I'll even bring a sample of Virginia's Finest - honey of course.

  13. #53
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    I have not been to the Festival since 1984, back when I worked at CW. I have a number of memories of Suffolk Co early 19th Century architecture from traveling the back roads w/ CW's Historical Architects. And going out on Hog Island to look for eagles and snow geese.

    Have some peanut soup for me sometime.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  14. #54
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    May 2012
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Deknow, what are your concerns with Rnai tech in this regard? I think people read into the Monsanto buying Beeologics too much. I think it was WLC who pointed out why they bought them.

    I don't see why anyone is surprised about resistance, we all know that's what happens in todays modern ag era and huge monocultures. I think a majority of it has been traced back to poor refuge management by the farmers as well in these areas but I would agree, that it is still Monsanto's fault for not distilling/enforcing the ideal refuge practices of people using their product.

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Northern Virginia
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    761

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by AstroBee View Post
    Toad,
    take a more active role in the organization. I'm certain that your willingness to participate would be welcomed.
    You have got to be kidding. That ship is locked up tighter than tight.
    karla

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    9,759

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Set aside your preconceptions and you might enjoy his talk.
    I can't Mark, I know how big corporation operate and freedom of speech is not in their program. Kinda like listening to any politician. What ever Jerry Hayes was before he is not himself now. I will bet my life on it.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  17. #57
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    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    9,759

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Sorry, I don't buy into this thinking. Unless the speaker was being rude, walking out when you don't happen to agree with what they're saying is rude.
    Walking out is probably the most polite thing to do if someone is feeding you a bunch of hogwash. To stay would only make matters worse. If I was sitting there listening to someones hogwash they would want me to quietly leave ... trust me.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Utica, NY
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    9,759

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by beemandan View Post
    One is that people who are suspicious by their nature should be watched carefully. Another is that people who are trusting by their nature are usually trustworthy.
    Every con man in the world banks on that and cashes in. Check out Bernie Madoff. I haven't reach 60 yet but I learn fast.
    Brian Cardinal
    Zone 5a, Practicing non-intervention beekeeping

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by winevines View Post
    You have got to be kidding. That ship is locked up tighter than tight.
    Those who standby and accept the status quo deserve what they themselves accept by not gtetting involved. Figure out what it takes. Volunhteer for a job no one else wants to do. See a need and fill it. Get on a Committee. Show up when committees meet and sit in. If they don't want your participation go anyway.

    Go to Board of Directors Meetings, most are open to members or should be. Make a pest of yourself, with kindness of course, if that's what it takes. Don't accept things the way they are. Change comes by one person standing up.

    Of course I don't know what you mean or what VA Beekeepers Association is like, but it doesn't matter. If you think something isn't right it is your duty to say so. Certainly there is a General Membership Meeting, isn't there? Get up and speak during New Business. Make a Motion. Have someone nominate you for a position. Nothing may come of it at first but you will be noticed. Keep trying. Don't give up.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
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    5,462

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Go to Board of Directors Meetings, most are open to members or should be. Make a pest of yourself, with kindness of course, if that's what it takes. Don't accept things the way they are. Change comes by one person standing up.
    You obviously don't know Karla...Winevines. There aren't many out there as active and kind, and open to...and at the forefront of change, as she is. You're preaching to the choir director Mark.

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