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Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

20K views 67 replies 23 participants last post by  jredburn 
#1 ·
I would like some advice on how or what to do.
The Virginia State Beekeepers Association is having it's meeting next month and I'm shocked and amazed that one of the two speakers is Jerry Hayes, if your not familiar with him he is a honey bee guy that works for Monsanto!
I just can not believe that the association is having him speak or thinks that he has beekeepers best interest. Am I just being crazy??
I know that Jerry and Monsanto say they want to help control honey bee pest and find a solution for CCD but as far as I'm concerned they are the problem that's causing the CCD. Again I'm I crazy.
 
#2 ·
It seems to me that you have two choices. You can go to the meeting and see what he has to say or you can presume he’s corrupt, without any evidence, and not attend.
 
#3 ·
Today was the annual meeting of the Maine State Beekeepers Association and one of the speakers was Jerry Hayes. The first portion of his talk, I thought, was very interesting as he discussed the historical background of CCD. The latter part of his talk, I thought, went too deeply in touting the wonders and benefits of Monsanto's genetically modified corn and it's contribution to the world's health, nutrition and well-being. It was necessary to go into this, I guess, since like the corn, the concept of mucking with the honeybees' RNA is apparently key to what was billed as Monsanto's quest to "control Honey Bee parasites and pathogens using non-chemical controls."

Not sure what the "non-chemical" is going to be but he implied that it is a product that will be sprayed directly on the bees. When asked if it persists, he said no. Seems that the "non-chemical" will be a product to purchase and apply annually. He did not take many questions. I wanted to ask if there is any resulting genetic changes that can ultimately be spread to neighboring non-treated hives through drones heading out to do what drones do, but did not get a chance to. (I suspect Monsanto's lawyers have determined there is no risk for this and he would not be able to say otherwise.)

The speaker before Mr Hayes was Michael Bush. Since I was sitting behind him, I could only imagine what his reaction to the talk was.

My advice is to go to the meeting if there are other speakers and if you get a chance, ask Jerry Hayes about non-treated hives becoming genetically mucked up since Monsanto will obviously be unable to control the flight paths of drones treated with their "non-chemical."

Wayne
 
#4 ·
Wayne,
Thanks for the information. Very interesting as I wanted to go to the meeting and ask questions. Looks like Jerry and Monsanto are to smart to take questions. I'm just wondering why any beekeepers association would have him come speak. I can't believe that Monsanto has beekeepers best interest unless it is money to them. Ask the dairy farmers how Monsanto helped them. None I have talked to still use there product because it was so bad for the cows.
 
#5 ·
In his defense, he did take some questions, though, perhaps due to time constraints, he didn't take a lot and I didn't get a chance to ask mine. Most questions did not get to the heart of the technology and it's impacts, except for the one person who asked if the treatment persists or needs to be done on a regular basis.

The first questioner did directly ask why he was coming to our meeting to (and I'm paraphrasing.) act as a shill for a company that is causing so many problems for us. I suspect that that might have put him a bit on the defensive side though I would expect him to get used to it, since so many believe that the fox is now guarding the hen house.

At the Maine annual meeting, the Monsanto promotion was a small part of the entire program, and as I said, the first half of his talk was interesting. You may find the rest of your meeting worthwhile and informative also. Dr, Nancy Ostiguy is researching CCD at Penn State, focusing on non-pesticidal approaches to pest control and should be an interesting speaker at your meeting.

Wayne
 
#10 ·
many believe that the fox is now guarding the hen house.
I always find it interesting when folks immediately associate a paycheck and corruption. So many people believe everyone thinks the same as they do themselves….making such insinuations a personal reflection.
It just might be that Jerry Hayes is in the fox den protecting the chickens. It seems reasonable to me to give folks a chance to prove their worth.
 
#6 ·
Sorry, you are just being crazy. Jerry was the head of the Florida Apiary Inspection division in FLorida prior to joining Monsanto. It is easy to paint with a broad brush. I am sure that he has nothing but the best intentions for the bees and beekeepers.

If you do no research, you will never progress to a better position. Someone has to do the research and it has to be paid for. Be thankful that it is someone with your and the bees interest at heart.
 
#7 ·
Sorry, you are just being crazy....
I have no interest in what he did in Florida. I know what I heard him say Saturday and I know who is paying his salary now.

I have no intention of ever buying a Monsanto product so I'm just going to have to continue with the soft-treatments I use if required. My only fear is the possibility of our bee stock being ruined by Monsanto-generated genetics. He didn't rule that out in his presentation in Maine, didn't even broach the subject.

And please, don't call me crazy. That's quite rude of you. Learn some manners.

Wayne
 
#8 · (Edited)
I just can not believe that the association is having him speak or thinks that he has beekeepers best interest. Am I just being crazy??
I know that Jerry and Monsanto say they want to help control honey bee pest and find a solution for CCD but as far as I'm concerned they are the problem that's causing the CCD. Again I'm I crazy.
The crazy statement was not for you WaynesGarden. When someone asks a rhetorical question they should expect an answer they may not like.

And believe me, if they try and patent bee genetics then charge everyone who's bees get contaminated with them we will all be screaming like crazy. Paint them how you wish, but Monsanto has fed a lot of people. I don't want to get into an aurgument here and I know that many feel that Monsanto is "The Great Satan". But there is always more than one side of any story. I just think it is shortsighted and frankly, to condemn someone from association and ignore all past accomplishments and things they have done is insulting.

I would bet you benefit from Monsanto products quite often, like it or not.

As for manners, pot calling the kettle I would say.

Matters not, You take care and you do have my best wishes.

jeb
 
#9 ·
One thing Jerry Hayes mentioned was the Israeli Acute Paralysis Honeybee Viruses. I remember first reading about this honeybee virus in the Zola Leavitt newsletter. I don't have a copy of the article and cannot find it on the internet. It was a good article. Jerry Hayes just briefly mentioned about the Israeli Acute Paralysis Virus. linn
 
#11 ·
I too was at the Maine meeting and heard Jerry Hayes speak. I am generally skeptical about all of the big ag chemical companies, however Jerry seemed to go out of his way to say that Monsanto has not always been a perfect corporate citizen. Monsanto purchased the company Jerry now works for - Beeologics - which sounds like it was a smart move for Monsanto. My understanding is that Beeologics did not have the cash resources to complete the research they wanted to do and Monsanto does.

Now I'll be the first to acknowledge that Monsanto is acting in Monsanto's best interests: yet the RNA research is fascinating, particularly for beekeepers who dislike using older ag chemicals for mite control in their hives. I'm inclined to see where they go with their research and product development, making up my mind as to whether or not their products are something I want to use as more information becomes available.

I was sitting next to Michael Bush at the meeting (one of the benefits of being a State Association Board member) and I got the impression (he was not all that talkative) that he understood very clearly that he was speaking at a meeting with lots of chemical users present, and that the typical natural approach to beekeeping lecture would not go over well. He spoke on myths in beekeeping, which having read his book and on-line materials, covered no new ground for me. Michael also had the speaking slot right after lunch which didn't help. I know I was drowsy!

My conclusion: Jerry Hayes knows bees and is worth listening to for that alone. The work of Beeologics is interesting, and I am not willing to completely dismiss it just because the company is now owned by Monsanto.

Many of the ag chemical companies are often demonized for their practices. I tend to shy away from Animal Farm like generalizations ("four legs good") and will wait to see how this plays out. And I will be watching.
 
#13 ·
I have nothing against Jerry personally (hey, we thanked him in our book...it was an answer he provided in his Classroom collumn that lead us to our interest in the microbial aspects of honeybees).

BUT

One must accept that as a director of Beeologics (owned in whole by Monsanto) that Jerry now has obligations....specifically fiduciary duties....under which it would be a breach of his duties to do anything that isn't in the best interest of the corporation (Monsanto and/or Beeoloiogics...I believe their interests are one and the same).

From: http://business-law.lawyers.com/small-business-law/Fiduciary-Responsibilities-Corporations.html
Directors must act in the best interests of the corporation and its members or stockholders. More specifically, the duty to act in good faith prohibits members of the board of directors from:

Failing to act in the face of a known duty to act
Acting in a manner unrelated to a pursuit of the corporation's best interest
Maintaining a sustained or systematic failure to provide oversight
Again, there is nothing personal in this evaluation....Jerry simply has no freedom to act in the best interests of anyone but Monsanto...in many cases, such a breach would be an actual felony, not just grounds for being fired (and losing a fat monsanto retirement package to boot).

This is a cut and dried issue...there is no room for Jerry to act in your interest if it conflicts with that of Monsanto.

deknow
 
#14 ·
This is a cut and dried issue....
Nothing cut and dried about it. If a product produced by a company is faulty or unreasonably dangerous its delivery and use would be deemed ‘not in the best interest of the company’. The board of directors has a responsibility to assure the success of a company and delivering a defective product is the surest means to failure.
 
#15 ·
Yes, Jerry will act in your best interest in the cases in which your best interest and the best interests of Monsanto are one and the same. I don't find this reassuring. ...but in such a case, is the best interest of Monsanto to have Jerry talking about the evil Monsanto publicly at a bee meeting, or working within the corporation behind closed doors? Do you think that dangerous products and profits are mutually exclusive?

deknow
 
#18 ·
...prejudice?
Jerry is obligated to do his best to assure the success of the company.
You have already presumed the worst case. You don’t have a stitch of evidence. Prejudice….yes.
I will allow the man to prove himself, one way or the other.
Having said this, I am not going to engage in a never ending, convoluted, semantic debate with you.
So…go ahead….have the last word.
 
#21 ·
Certainly attend, whether you support genetic manipulation or not. As Sun Tzu wrote in On the Art of War, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." It's up to each individual to decide if Monsanto will be a friend to beekeepers.

As I said previously, even if you ardently disagree, there certainly will be much you will find of value at the meeting.

Wayne
 
#22 ·
Thanks deknow I'm glad someone agrees.
beemandan, I understand what you are saying, and I know there is no smoking gun between Monsanto and CCD but I know for certain that if you were to ask David Hackenberg or Dave Mendes they would tell you other wise!
 
#27 ·
For sure, but Dave and Dave have an agenda. At least one of them received huge FSA payments for his CCD losses. Not taking any sides here. I only know my bees and my territory...and I'm surrounded by an ocean of corn in some apiaries. They both claim clothianadin in corn is killing their bees. At the EAS meeting, Dave M told me just because my bees are surrounded by corn, and I'm not seeing an issue...great honey crop and strong colonies...that it isn't true.

He said, "I take my bees to almonds and they get a dose, I take my bees to blueberries and they get a dose, I take my bees to cranberries and they get a dose, and when I take them anywhere near corn, they crash."

I looked at him and said, "They get a dose on almonds, blueberries, and cranberries, and then crash on the corn? And it's the corn??"

"But if your making a honey crop", says DM, "You have other things around and the bees don't have to visit the corn and you aren't being affected."

I asked him, "Why would you move your bees to anywhere where there is only corn and no other forage?"

He said..."I don't."

????
 
#23 ·
"Jerry is obligated to do his best to assure the success of the company.
You have already presumed the worst case. You don’t have a stitch of evidence. Prejudice….yes.
I will allow the man to prove himself, one way or the other.
Having said this, I am not going to engage in a never ending, convoluted, semantic debate with you.
So…go ahead….have the last word." beemandan.

:applause:
 
#24 ·
Find yourself a copy of the July 2012 American Bee Journal. There's an in-depth interview with Jerry on why he accepted the position at Monsanto and the work there (pages 657-659).

Given Jerry's long-standing reputation within the beekeeping community, I'd be eager to hear his opinions and viewpoints.

As an aside, last year here in Indiana we had a speaker from Bayer Crop Sciences (which is more implicated by CCD than Monsanto). I believe as beekeepers, we need more interaction with Bayer and Monsanto, not less.
 
#25 ·
I'm shocked and amazed that one of the two speakers is Jerry Hayes, if your not familiar with him he is a honey bee guy that works for Monsanto!
I just can not believe that the association is having him speak or thinks that he has beekeepers best interest.
Toad,

If you're so displeased with how the state org is selecting speakers then take a more active role in the organization. I'm certain that your willingness to participate would be welcomed.
 
#28 ·
Thank you for that, Michael.

Toad, I'm not sure what you think I'm in agreement with. I certainly don't think Jerry should be completely ignored.....I'd say listen to what he has to say with the same skepticism one might have when listening to a white house press secretary from an administration you don't favor.

Deknow
 
#30 ·
I just can not believe that the association is having him speak or thinks that he has beekeepers best interest. Am I just being crazy??
I know that Jerry and Monsanto say they want to help control honey bee pest and find a solution for CCD but as far as I'm concerned they are the problem that's causing the CCD. Again I'm I crazy.
Crazy? No, but seems you have made up your mind about Jerry Hayes. So, if you go and listen to what he has to say whatever he says will be tainted by your bias.

I think you should go and listen. Then how you feel may be justified or you may find that you will learn something.

Set aside your preconceptions and you might enjoy his talk.
 
#33 ·
...if you go and listen to what he has to say whatever he says will be tainted by your bias.
I think if one were to go hear Jerry give this talk at this point and expect that you are being presented with unbiased information, I would say, "Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus".

deknow
 
#52 ·
We have limited amount of peanuts around where my colonies are located. The big crops are cotton, soybeans, and corn. Yes, the original home of Planters Peanuts is no longer the big producer it once was. I have one small peanut yard about 1/2 mile away and haven't seen any issues.

We missed the PPP fest this year, but have been there several times before - I really like the setting! Did you attend? If you do in the future please let me know and I'll stop by, or you can swing by the house for lunch. I'll even bring a sample of Virginia's Finest - honey of course.
 
#34 ·
Would you call that your bias?
My bias is that I respect Jerry Hayes and would like to kn ow what he has to say and I would like to know why he feels working on Beeologics for Monsanto is a good idea for him, a good career path move.

I think anyone going into any informatiuon sharing situation w/out recognizing that each and every person has an agenda is foolish and delusional. That being said, an open mind and open eyes are called for when one opens themselves to learning something new.
 
#39 ·
Would you call that your bias?
...if you want to call it bias to recognize that when Jerry is talking, he is speaking as an officer of a corporation, and that when interfacing with beekeepers, he is only permitted to say things that will help Monsanto's bottom line, then sure, that's my bias.

deknow
 
#35 ·
Personally, I hope Monsanto showers bee researchers and scientists with grant money. We can all read, and evaluate their methodology, and decide for ourselves if their results are valid.

Monsanto is a business, and job one is earning money for shareholders. But that does not, past gaffes (and many of those have been overstated) notwithstanding, mean they are out to kill bees, or act against the best interests of healthy humans, stock and crops. That would not serve the long term interests of the corporation.

I do not think a polarized debate, and polarized positions, are going to help any of us. We need to work with researchers, even if funded by Monsanto and its holding companies, and work with agribusiness companies, to be sure the needs of bees and beekeepers are publicized and met. Walking out on BeeLogic or Monsanto speakers (which happened in our last association meeting as well) is not going to help.

Monsanto products are, as someone mentioned, feeding lots of people. There is nothing wrong, and much right, with improving crops, even with genetic modification, if it is regulated and examined (which it presently is, although I would like there to be more regulation and more noise about that process, particularly in the Third World testing fields, where desperation and hunger tempt people to take shortcuts). I would be happy if Monsanto engineered pest resistant crops (instead of pesticide resistant crops) AS LONG AS the pollen, nectar and field detritus/dust are safe for living things. I think this is achievable.

Beekeepers need to speak up and they need to listen, if only to gain an opportunity to speak up at the highest levels. You can bet Jerry will sit down with Monsanto execs and say "hey, they are ready to tar and feather me out there! Beekeepers need to hear you are taking care of their interests, because they are a big, powerful lobby with the greens and environmentalists, not to mention every mommy feeding kids in America, at their backs. Here is what they told me...."
. I hope he attends TONS of beekeeper association meetings and hears beekeeper concerns over and over and over again!!!

I would also be very happy to buy a Monsanto product that via RNAi techniques, stopped the life cycles of the pests, bacteria and viruses plaguing bees. That technique is at the forefront of medical research helping people and it can help the bees too. I would much rather buy a species specific kill than soak my hives in miticides, hoping the bees can take the side effects.

Science does not have to be Franken-science.
 
#36 ·
Walking out on BeeLogic or Monsanto speakers (which happened in our last association meeting as well) is not going to help.
That's just rude. You don't have to agree with someone's position, but showing disrespect by walking out on them shows just who the fools are. What a great opportunity to actually have Jerry there in person to ask your questions to and hear, from him, what he's doing in his position with Monsanto.
 
#37 ·
Barry, I think that is premature judgement without knowing what was said that lead to someone walking out....I've been at talks where this was justified.

I know another beekeeper that is quick to walk out of a talk if he doesn't like where it's going....not to be rude, but he would like to not say anything bad about anyone, _and_ he would like to be honest when asked what he thought of the presentation....leaving the talk allows for both.

As Sgt. Schultz would say, "I hear nothing!"

deknow
 
#48 ·
I know another beekeeper that is quick to walk out of a talk if he doesn't like where it's going....not to be rude, but he would like to not say anything bad about anyone, _and_ he would like to be honest when asked what he thought of the presentation....leaving the talk allows for both.

deknow
Yet you know he left....


"Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus".

deknow
 
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