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  1. #21
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    Jan 2009
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    Clifford Township, PA
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Certainly attend, whether you support genetic manipulation or not. As Sun Tzu wrote in On the Art of War, "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer." It's up to each individual to decide if Monsanto will be a friend to beekeepers.

    As I said previously, even if you ardently disagree, there certainly will be much you will find of value at the meeting.

    Wayne

  2. #22
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    Jun 2009
    Location
    orange, virginia usa
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    79

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Thanks deknow I'm glad someone agrees.
    beemandan, I understand what you are saying, and I know there is no smoking gun between Monsanto and CCD but I know for certain that if you were to ask David Hackenberg or Dave Mendes they would tell you other wise!

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Baytown, TX., USA.
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    651

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    "Jerry is obligated to do his best to assure the success of the company.
    You have already presumed the worst case. You don’t have a stitch of evidence. Prejudice….yes.
    I will allow the man to prove himself, one way or the other.
    Having said this, I am not going to engage in a never ending, convoluted, semantic debate with you.
    So…go ahead….have the last word." beemandan.

    Julysun elevation 23 feet. 4 Hives, 2 years.

  4. #24
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    Nov 2004
    Location
    Brown County, IN
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    2,025

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Find yourself a copy of the July 2012 American Bee Journal. There's an in-depth interview with Jerry on why he accepted the position at Monsanto and the work there (pages 657-659).

    Given Jerry's long-standing reputation within the beekeeping community, I'd be eager to hear his opinions and viewpoints.

    As an aside, last year here in Indiana we had a speaker from Bayer Crop Sciences (which is more implicated by CCD than Monsanto). I believe as beekeepers, we need more interaction with Bayer and Monsanto, not less.

  5. #25
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    Jan 2003
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
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    2,542

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by toad View Post
    I'm shocked and amazed that one of the two speakers is Jerry Hayes, if your not familiar with him he is a honey bee guy that works for Monsanto!
    I just can not believe that the association is having him speak or thinks that he has beekeepers best interest.
    Toad,

    If you're so displeased with how the state org is selecting speakers then take a more active role in the organization. I'm certain that your willingness to participate would be welcomed.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    columbus,ohio,USA
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    518

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    I dont know if anyone noticed, but look at the title of this thread w/out the "meeting advice". If thats what your having a meeting about, I think Ill pass.
    Chris Cree
    Cree's Bees

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
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    5,321

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by toad View Post
    Thanks deknow I'm glad someone agrees.
    beemandan, I understand what you are saying, and I know there is no smoking gun between Monsanto and CCD but I know for certain that if you were to ask David Hackenberg or Dave Mendes they would tell you other wise!
    For sure, but Dave and Dave have an agenda. At least one of them received huge FSA payments for his CCD losses. Not taking any sides here. I only know my bees and my territory...and I'm surrounded by an ocean of corn in some apiaries. They both claim clothianadin in corn is killing their bees. At the EAS meeting, Dave M told me just because my bees are surrounded by corn, and I'm not seeing an issue...great honey crop and strong colonies...that it isn't true.

    He said, "I take my bees to almonds and they get a dose, I take my bees to blueberries and they get a dose, I take my bees to cranberries and they get a dose, and when I take them anywhere near corn, they crash."

    I looked at him and said, "They get a dose on almonds, blueberries, and cranberries, and then crash on the corn? And it's the corn??"

    "But if your making a honey crop", says DM, "You have other things around and the bees don't have to visit the corn and you aren't being affected."

    I asked him, "Why would you move your bees to anywhere where there is only corn and no other forage?"

    He said..."I don't."

    ????

  8. #28
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    Jul 2006
    Location
    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    3,586

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Thank you for that, Michael.

    Toad, I'm not sure what you think I'm in agreement with. I certainly don't think Jerry should be completely ignored.....I'd say listen to what he has to say with the same skepticism one might have when listening to a white house press secretary from an administration you don't favor.

    Deknow

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    26,736

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    For sure, but Dave and Dave have an agenda. At least one of them received huge FSA payments for his CCD losses. Not taking any sides here. I only know my bees and my territory...and I'm surrounded by an ocean of corn in some apiaries. They both claim clothianadin in corn is killing their bees. At the EAS meeting, Dave M told me just because my bees are surrounded by corn, and I'm not seeing an issue...great honey crop and strong colonies...that it isn't true.

    He said, "I take my bees to almonds and they get a dose, I take my bees to blueberries and they get a dose, I take my bees to cranberries and they get a dose, and when I take them anywhere near corn, they crash."

    I looked at him and said, "They get a dose on almonds, blueberries, and cranberries, and then crash on the corn? And it's the corn??"

    "But if your making a honey crop", says DM, "You have other things around and the bees don't have to visit the corn and you aren't being affected."

    I asked him, "Why would you move your bees to anywhere where there is only corn and no other forage?"

    He said..."I don't."

    ????
    First reaction to Michael's Post? We all choose our own poison.

    I have to ask. If a beekeeper chooses to make their income from knowingly constant exposure of their livestock to pesticides and ag chems what do they expect and why shoulkd anyone else pay them for their losses?

    I take my bees to apples in the Spring and take my lumps on honey production and colony mortality(not that I can see any directly attributable to the pollination). Some, this year went to blueberries in NC and apples in NY and my honey crop this year is up 15 lbs better than last year.

    When people ask me why the crop was what it was I always blame the manager first, and then the weather.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  10. #30
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by toad View Post
    I just can not believe that the association is having him speak or thinks that he has beekeepers best interest. Am I just being crazy??
    I know that Jerry and Monsanto say they want to help control honey bee pest and find a solution for CCD but as far as I'm concerned they are the problem that's causing the CCD. Again I'm I crazy.
    Crazy? No, but seems you have made up your mind about Jerry Hayes. So, if you go and listen to what he has to say whatever he says will be tainted by your bias.

    I think you should go and listen. Then how you feel may be justified or you may find that you will learn something.

    Set aside your preconceptions and you might enjoy his talk.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  11. #31
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    Jan 2003
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    Suffolk, VA
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    I only know my bees and my territory...and I'm surrounded by an ocean of corn in some apiaries. They both claim clothianadin in corn is killing their bees.
    I know my bees and my territory too, and I can assure you that my bees are in an area where they are directly exposed to clothianadin, both from corn and cotton spray. I have seen ZERO impact as a result of this exposure. I'd go as far to say that my bees have never been healthier in the past 11 years. Zero losses last winter and monster colonies this season.

  12. #32
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    What about when next to peanuts AstroBee? Been to the PPP Festival this year?
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  13. #33
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    3,586

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    ...if you go and listen to what he has to say whatever he says will be tainted by your bias.
    I think if one were to go hear Jerry give this talk at this point and expect that you are being presented with unbiased information, I would say, "Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus".

    deknow

  14. #34
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Would you call that your bias?
    My bias is that I respect Jerry Hayes and would like to kn ow what he has to say and I would like to know why he feels working on Beeologics for Monsanto is a good idea for him, a good career path move.

    I think anyone going into any informatiuon sharing situation w/out recognizing that each and every person has an agenda is foolish and delusional. That being said, an open mind and open eyes are called for when one opens themselves to learning something new.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tsawwassen, BC, Canada
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    243

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Personally, I hope Monsanto showers bee researchers and scientists with grant money. We can all read, and evaluate their methodology, and decide for ourselves if their results are valid.

    Monsanto is a business, and job one is earning money for shareholders. But that does not, past gaffes (and many of those have been overstated) notwithstanding, mean they are out to kill bees, or act against the best interests of healthy humans, stock and crops. That would not serve the long term interests of the corporation.

    I do not think a polarized debate, and polarized positions, are going to help any of us. We need to work with researchers, even if funded by Monsanto and its holding companies, and work with agribusiness companies, to be sure the needs of bees and beekeepers are publicized and met. Walking out on BeeLogic or Monsanto speakers (which happened in our last association meeting as well) is not going to help.

    Monsanto products are, as someone mentioned, feeding lots of people. There is nothing wrong, and much right, with improving crops, even with genetic modification, if it is regulated and examined (which it presently is, although I would like there to be more regulation and more noise about that process, particularly in the Third World testing fields, where desperation and hunger tempt people to take shortcuts). I would be happy if Monsanto engineered pest resistant crops (instead of pesticide resistant crops) AS LONG AS the pollen, nectar and field detritus/dust are safe for living things. I think this is achievable.

    Beekeepers need to speak up and they need to listen, if only to gain an opportunity to speak up at the highest levels. You can bet Jerry will sit down with Monsanto execs and say "hey, they are ready to tar and feather me out there! Beekeepers need to hear you are taking care of their interests, because they are a big, powerful lobby with the greens and environmentalists, not to mention every mommy feeding kids in America, at their backs. Here is what they told me...."
    . I hope he attends TONS of beekeeper association meetings and hears beekeeper concerns over and over and over again!!!

    I would also be very happy to buy a Monsanto product that via RNAi techniques, stopped the life cycles of the pests, bacteria and viruses plaguing bees. That technique is at the forefront of medical research helping people and it can help the bees too. I would much rather buy a species specific kill than soak my hives in miticides, hoping the bees can take the side effects.

    Science does not have to be Franken-science.

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,392

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by WesternWilson View Post
    Walking out on BeeLogic or Monsanto speakers (which happened in our last association meeting as well) is not going to help.
    That's just rude. You don't have to agree with someone's position, but showing disrespect by walking out on them shows just who the fools are. What a great opportunity to actually have Jerry there in person to ask your questions to and hear, from him, what he's doing in his position with Monsanto.
    Regards, Barry

  17. #37
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    3,586

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Barry, I think that is premature judgement without knowing what was said that lead to someone walking out....I've been at talks where this was justified.

    I know another beekeeper that is quick to walk out of a talk if he doesn't like where it's going....not to be rude, but he would like to not say anything bad about anyone, _and_ he would like to be honest when asked what he thought of the presentation....leaving the talk allows for both.

    As Sgt. Schultz would say, "I hear nothing!"

    deknow

  18. #38
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    Dec 2005
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    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Walking out can signify a number of things. It can be done to show opposition to the Speaker, the Speaker's message, that which the Speaker represents. It could also indicate a need to visit the rest room which is more important at the moment than the Speaker and their message.

    I don't spend the whole day in my seat at bee mtngs. I try to leave before the Speaker is introduced. Hallway conversations can be as valuable as what Speakers have to present.

    I thought Schultz said, "I know nuthink!!"
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

  19. #39
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    Jul 2006
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    Worcester County, Massachusetts
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    3,586

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Would you call that your bias?
    ...if you want to call it bias to recognize that when Jerry is talking, he is speaking as an officer of a corporation, and that when interfacing with beekeepers, he is only permitted to say things that will help Monsanto's bottom line, then sure, that's my bias.

    deknow

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
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    9,392

    Default Re: Virginia Beekeepers Ass. meetng advice

    Sorry, I don't buy into this thinking. Unless the speaker was being rude, walking out when you don't happen to agree with what they're saying is rude. A reflection of our current societal mindset that thinks of "me" first and has little training about respect of others.
    Last edited by Barry; 10-18-2012 at 11:47 AM.
    Regards, Barry

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