treatment free beekeeping - the risks

[sqkcrk]

Have you tried John Kefuss' ideas and how did they work for you?

I think I would have died when I was 12 and not passed on my apendisitis genes. But I didn't. I'm not sure what you are getting at. That people should do that w/ their bees or that they shouldn't?

How does painting the insides of boxes keep SHB out?
What is it in grapefruit leaves that when burned they keep mites down?
Yet you advocate feeding? Seems like knowing how and when to take only enuf honey from your bees would mean not having to feed. Wouldn't that be preferable for a hobby beekeeper?

[deknow]

...what do you believe is functionally different between "commercial pesticides" and, say, smoking with grapefruit leaves? If the leaves are actually effective, wouldn't it lead to the same results? Likewise with feedging.

Deknow

[cerezha]

I have always maintained that a natural resistance must already exists. Maybe some scientist could show me another way to see this? Sergey?

I mist this one - of coarse, natural resistance exists, it is called immunity. It did not work 100% time, but it is quite robust. The problem with immunity is that it takes up to 10 days for immune system to respond on pathogen in full force. If pathogen is in huge amount - it could kill before immune system kills the pathogen... this is why the initial concentration of the pathogen is important. Immune system keeps us alive every moment. Same - for bees. Sorry for delay - this thread is humungous - I could not catch up!

Well, it seems to me I mixed up - Mark, are you talking about natural resistance of the AFB to antibiotic? My passage above is for "natural resistance" of the victim, not pathogen. As for pathogen - this survived in antibiotic AFB is a "super-bacteria", which travels to another host and kill, kill, kill... this is why fire is used - because, pathogen already turned into super-pathogen, which is not completely destroyable by antibiotic.

[cerezha]

Have you tried John Kefuss' ideas and how did they work for you?...

Mark, as a businessman, you should pay respect to Kefuss - he is selling his special breeder queens for 650E each! He managed to turn his approach into profit. I am impressed!

[Oldtimer]

Ha! So hoopla can pay!

Bit like hoopla around supposed "chemical free" honey can pay, in the hands of a skilled spin doctor!

[sqkcrk]

Well, it seems to me I mixed up - Mark, are you talking about natural resistance of the AFB to antibiotic?

That there are AFB strains which naturally have differentr levels or fdegrees of resistence to the effects of Terrimycin.

[sqkcrk]

Mark, as a businessman, you should pay respect to Kefuss - he is selling his special breeder queens for 650E each! He managed to turn his approach into profit. I am impressed!

I don't disrespect Mr. Kefuss, I'm just asking. Apparently he is a good businessman. Hundreds of other breeders of special breeder queens are too. Breeder queens commonly sell for something similar to what you report Kefuss getting. And more, thousands. So, I'm not surprised.

I know people who have paid that much for breeder queens and have traveled thousands of miles to retreive them.

How much does he sell his regular queens for, the nonbreeder queens?

Maybe I need to learn more about Mr. Kefuss before I ask anymore questions about him because asking questions so often make people think I am being critical, when actually I don't know the answer to the question.

[Ramona]

I don't disrespect Mr. Kefuss, I'm just asking. Apparently he is a good businessman. Hundreds of other breeders of special breeder queens are too. Breeder queens commonly sell for something similar to what you report Kefuss getting. And more, thousands. So, I'm not surprised.

I know people who have paid that much for breeder queens and have traveled thousands of miles to retreive them.

Maybe I need to learn more about Mr. Kefuss before I ask anymore questions about him because asking questions so often make people think I am being critical, when actually I don't know the answer to the question.

I just googled "john kefuss bees" and found a lot of links including bee journal articles. You'll probably do better reading for yourself...lots of goodies to absorb!

Ramona

[BeeCurious]

Maybe I need to learn more about Mr. Kefuss before I ask anymore questions about him because asking questions so often make people think I am being critical, when actually I don't know the answer to the question.

Ask Kefuss directly: jkefussbees@wanadoo.fr

[Acebird]

because asking questions so often make people think I am being critical, when actually I don't know the answer to the question.

Is that how it works? I always thought it showed a thirst for knowledge. I guess people's brain are wired differently.

[Oldtimer]

It's about how things come across on the net Ace. I'm very careful before asking for links any more because I have been accused of "putting people on the spot", and "intimidating" people. I'll tend to google first then if all else fails then I'll ask for a link if I think it won't cause offence.

Likewise the motive behind a question can be totally misinterpreted.

[sqkcrk]

Randy Oliver is asking treatment free beekeepers to monitor varroa mite counts monthly and report the findings to him. Kim Flottum sent out the request via his e-blast. Are any of you interested in doing this and helping Randy Oliver?

[squarepeg]

that's extremely cool mark, probably worthy of a new thread of it's own.

[cerezha]

Randy Oliver is asking treatment free beekeepers to monitor varroa mite counts monthly ...

I used to do sticky board/24hr. I have numbers for perhaps 6-7 months. Since I noticed wax moth activity, I replaced sticky board on oil pan and could not count. My mite counts were quite stable - around 50 for the large hive and 7 for smaller beehive, which swarmed, had difficulties to establish the queen and never produce any honey to me, but doing well. Last count in the end of July was actually 20 for the large one and 5 or 7 for the small one. Based on my experience, the mites count on the sticky board should be somehow normalized to the size of hive - bigger hive should have a higher numbers because more bees, larva etc. My bees clearly have a habit of cleaning themselves and each-other, so I believe that my "mite counts" represents the number of mites removed from the adult bees. For proper "scientific" count, one should use standardized test like ethanol method or Germans just freeze number of bees and than mix them with ethanol or water (forgot). There were link in some thread to very informative German video how they propagate mite-resistant stocks. They have a national program for this.
I am reluctant to do a real mite-count tests on my bees because being "feral"/survivor, they are quite sensitive to the invasion into the hive. But, once I remove oil pan, I will continue to do sticky board on regular basis - it just helped to me to monitor overall bees well-being without invasion.

[Andrew Dewey]

Randy Oliver is asking treatment free beekeepers to monitor varroa mite counts monthly and report the findings to him. Kim Flottum sent out the request via his e-blast. Are any of you interested in doing this and helping Randy Oliver?

I have already e-mailed Randy that I intend to do monthly counts and send him results as he requested.

[Acebird]

Randy Oliver is asking treatment free beekeepers to monitor varroa mite counts monthly and report the findings to him. Kim Flottum sent out the request via his e-blast. Are any of you interested in doing this and helping Randy Oliver?

I am all for the research but I question how valid it is if you only have one or two hives. Can that be compared to a commercial beekeeper that may have 30 or 40 in an apiary? My thinking is the mite counts might be lower if you only have a few hives in the apiary. Heck, maybe that is what the data will show. Well, you would have to run that hypothesis.

[Oldtimer]

for smaller beehive, which swarmed, had difficulties to establish the queen and never produce any honey to me, but doing well.

Isn't that an oxymoron?

[Roland]

I might be persuaded to help Mr. Oliver, but found little value in how many mites died, was more interested in how many will be born.

Crazy Roland

[StevenG]

I'm conflicted... I'd like to help, but... I've had treatment free bees for 6 years now, and have never done a mite count. My hives simply survive. Not sure how a mite count now from my apiary would help...though it might... still, the hives have lived. Maybe I should be more curious, but I've had serious time constraints this year especially.
Regards,
Steven

[sqkcrk]

that's extremely cool mark, probably worthy of a new thread of it's own.

And so I started such a Thread. Y'all come.