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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    Daniel Y,
    What does a happy bee look like? Or a not happy bee? How can one tell the difference.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  2. #22
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Keep your own bees. Don't stick your nose into your neighbors hives or management practices. Treat other beekeepers respectfully regardless of who they are, what their abilities are, or where they originate from. Don't intentionally sell disease infected equipment or bees.
    Mark - what you say sounds good. But let us imagine that in the yards I spoke of above there is AFB. What then? Should the uninfected beekeeper continue to ignore the infected beekeeper?

    As I have noted before, I have both treated and untreated yards. I try to keep on top of what is going on pest/disease why, but I'm far from perfect. Still, I like to think I'd recognize AFB if it was staring me in the face.

    My wife likes to joke that there should be licenses for having children. In that same bent, is there some standard competency and/or behavior to be expected from any beekeeper? We all had to start learning from a blank slate. Getting some beekeeping education and learning to recognize and deal with seriously contagious bee diseases as prescribed by law seems reasonable to me.
    Last edited by Andrew Dewey; 10-10-2012 at 06:06 AM.
    Master Beekeeper (EAS) and Master Gardener (U Maine CE) www.beeberrywoods.com

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    How does one beekeeper know that AFB exists in their neighbors apiary? If AFB exists in any apiary, the ethical/moral/legal thing to do is get rid of it. Contain and destroy the diseased hive(s), by burning or deep burial.

    Ignore is your word. I see the condition of my colonys my business and my Business, if you see the diff. So, it is up to me to keep them in what I consider the proper condition. If I saw a consisted spike in AFB in my bees, knowing what I know about AFB, I would look at my own practices first to see if I have exposed myself thru purchased equipment and such.

    I might seek help from the Authoritys to see if they can determine whether my neighbors hives are infected, if it appears as though I am doing everthing I can then I would look beyond my own apiary. That's when I would go against what I wrote before.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  4. #24
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Daniel Y,
    What does a happy bee look like? Or a not happy bee? How can one tell the difference.
    "Happy" as we understand happy. I don't believe bees have emotions, but in a very short time, one knows the difference between a bee that is happy/content and mad/irritated. You know this by their actions and sound. Don't your bees talk to you?
    Regards, Barry

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    Sure Barry, but I don't always listen.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  6. #26
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    Quote Originally Posted by Maykronata View Post
    Hi all!

    I would like to open up the floor for a discussion about the ethics of keeping bees on both industrial/small scales and some historical/social contexts related to beekeeping. I assume everyone here is comfortable keeping bees and using honey (I certainly am, so no worries! I'm not looking to pick a fight!) I would like to get some people's opinions on the possible social implications of artificial queen insemination, treating for pests, commercial-scale beekeeping and its difficulties/implications, the idea of beekeeping as 'usury' (I don't see it this way, but I'd like to talk about it anyway), and other 'ethical' concepts. I'd also like to talk about how gender and race has influenced beekeepers and how women and minorities deal with issues that may arise in beekeeping or the agricultural field (no pun intended!).

    Feel free to suggest topics or resources!

    Kelly
    What specific "historical/social contexts related to beekeeping" do you wish to discuss?
    What sorts of "ethics of keeping bees on both industrial/small scale" do you see and wish to discuss?
    "social implications of artificial queen insemination"? What sorts of social implications might those be?
    "difficulties/implications" of "commercial-scale beekeeping"?
    "the idea of 'usury'"? I don't know what that is or how it pertains to beekeeping.

    As to gender and race and how that has influenced beekeepers, I'm not sure what you are after here. "how women and minorities deal with issues that may arise in beekeeping"? Do you mean problems? Points of confrontation, bias, or discrimination due to race or gender amongst beekeepers, especially on the commercial scale?

    I know women who are commercial beekeepers. I have met and visited w/ African Americancommercial beekeepers. I know of some Gay commercial beekeepers. Demographically speaking beekeepers in America are predominantly white, male, straight, and over 50 years of age. (I am assuming the straight part. I don't know if anyone tracks that in beekeeper surveys.) Probably for the most part Protestant Christian too, I think. I don't know for sure, but most of that can be said for the agricultural industry on the whole, except perhaps younger in age. I'm not sure.

    I hope you will participate in the discussion. Otherwise all this is is a bunch of beekeepers kicking things around and we may never get to exactly what you want to know.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  7. #27
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    Mar 2010
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    Chester Co, PA, USA
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    Hi All,
    I havent used treatments yet but I will if they need it. By keeping bees, I have made a comittment to keep them healthy and safe. I do it because it is relaxing, the bees need help and I love honey.
    As for sickness, feeding and treatments, the human population is seeing a resurgence of disease due to non or late vaccinations. This puts the eldery, very young and immunocompromised at risk- fact. In this respect the bees are similar. My decisions MAY have consquences for others.
    Blessed Be!

    Meridith

  8. #28
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    Mark is trying to get this thread moved to TG!
    Regards, Barry

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    I am? I'm not the one who wrote "Blessed Be!", clearly a religious reference. The pervue of Tailgater.

    Sorry Meridith. Didn't mean to throw youy under the bus. I know you simply made a typo and meant "Blessed Bee".

    How so Barry? I thought I addressed the OPers' questions/statements quite directly and w/out politrical or religious overtones, simply observations. actual demographic surveys have been done on beekeepers. I don't have a link to them, but I bet Kim Flottum of Bee Culture has them.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  10. #30
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    Jun 2008
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    Ellenville, NY, USA
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    Quote Originally Posted by Maykronata View Post
    Hi all!
    I'd also like to talk about how gender has influenced beekeepers
    Kelly
    Speaking of gender, I have to admit I'm personally biased in favor of the female bees

  11. #31
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    Chester Co, PA, USA
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    I am sorry and humbly be your pardon. No offense intended or taken.
    Meridith

  12. #32
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    Sacramento, CA, USA
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    Andrew, what was the treatment free guy's argument that the commercial guy had some impact on his bees? Too many bees in one area or something? I don't see how one guy treating his bees would affect my bees at all unless he was saying his treatments made the pathogens more severe or something.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    "Blessed Be!", clearly a religious reference.
    Clear as mud to me. No religious connection that I see. You brought up a list of topics that will very easily get a discussion into areas that are non beekeeping. We've been down this road before and it rarely stays on this side of the fence.
    Regards, Barry

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    Well, maybe this will be the exception.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  15. #35
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    Andrew, what was the treatment free guy's argument that the commercial guy had some impact on his bees? Too many bees in one area or something? I don't see how one guy treating his bees would affect my bees at all unless he was saying his treatments made the pathogens more severe or something.
    Without going back to reread the Bee-L post my best recollection is that the treatment free bees were doing just fine prior to the commercial yards locating nearby. The sudden demise of the tf bees was all the "proof" needed. Keep in mind that it was the commercial beekeeper who made the Bee-L post.
    Master Beekeeper (EAS) and Master Gardener (U Maine CE) www.beeberrywoods.com

  16. #36
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    Dec 2006
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    St. Albans, Vermont
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    Okay...I made that post on Bee-L.

    As you know, I winter hundreds of nucleus colonies. I have several apiaries, dedicated to nucleus colonies. They each hold 50-90 nucs.

    The winter of 2011-2012 was the winter that never came. The bees wintered exceptionally well, with losses under 10%. This is over the 35 apiaries I own and manage.The nucleus colonies, in March, were already bursting with bees...every apiary but one. In that yard, half were dead, and most of the rest were weak. Sick looking bees, greasy, but not poopy. What happened?? So we're trying to figure out what we did differently here than the other yards.

    Then some guy drives into the yard, gets out of his vehicle, and starts wagging his finger at me. Didn't I know he had 10 colonies right over there in the woods...hidden from view of course. I guess I was supposed to know by divine intervention. "Non of my bees would build up and they all died".

    I asked him where he got his bees...Some packages from Betterbee, and some from his club's president. Packaged bees!

    So I guess he figured since I had a nuc yard next to him, that my bees prevented his bees from building up and thriving. Of course, my nucs never got set up until July, so.....

    Anyway, I took some samples and check under the scope. No need for 400x. At 40x, the nosema spores showed up like a Christmas tree! By the way...I don't use fumidil. All the nucs, in all the dedicated apiaries, were made with brood and bees from the same group of nucleus the previous summer, and had the whole mix of daughters from all of my breeder queens. No outside source of bees here.


    Funny, I'm just remembering another beekeeper who came into one of my apiaries this spring, when Kork and I were reversing. All his bees died. Never built up and wouldn't even draw out their second box, and all the bees were gone in the spring. More packages from the same club president.
    Last edited by Barry; 10-11-2012 at 06:47 AM. Reason: ought to know by now - language

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    Mark, Recognizing a happy bee is an observation thing.

    So what are the typical ethics of a White American Male? I suppose you can find and list that or you can just say the typical beekeeper is a White Male. The same can be said for age, religion, Sexual orientation, Average size of household, predominant geographical region.

    Each group does in fact have an underlying ethical code they have chosen to adopt. Adherence to that code is variable so at best the profile is broad.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  18. #38
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    jackson county, alabama, usa
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    michael, do you feel as though the nosema found its way into your hives from those other 10? does it happen when the other hives get weak, and then are robbed by your bees?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    MP, isn't the rest of the story that your neighbor ended up getting some bees from you and you made a friend out of an adversery?
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


  20. #40
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    Default Re: Beekeeping ethics and Social Context

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Y View Post
    Each group does in fact have an underlying ethical code they have chosen to adopt. Adherence to that code is variable so at best the profile is broad.
    Each group an underlying ethical code? I try not to generalize, though it may happen every now and then. I hesitate to say what a group will do, how a group will behave, what a groups ethics are. Individuals have ethics. As others have stated before, being responsible as a beekeeper, as a human, might aught to be an ethic to strive for.
    Mark Berninghausen To combat Ebola, please consider supporting http://www.doctorswithoutborders.org


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