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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC, USA
    Posts
    859

    Default My Wooden PF-120s

    After seeing a post by Solomon on putting PF-120 plastic foundation in wooden frames I decided that was the way for me to go small cell. I used Brushy mnts grooved top and bottom bar frames. Cut the foundation out of the plastic frames, and trimmed the embossed cell walls down so they would snap in the frames.

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    2012-10-07 15.25.14.jpg

    Steve
    https://www.facebook.com/stevesbees99
    Please visit my page, Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,582

    Default Re: My Wooden PF-120s

    Looks nice.

    I might order deep pf frames and cut the "foundation" in half. I'll save a little money, and the open space at the bottom of the frame can be used as the bees prefer.

    I did the same with some Honey Super Cell.

    I'm going to order narrow endbars for a case of frames that are lingering in my attic...
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,439

    Default Re: My Wooden PF-120s

    You do know Mann lake sells small cell foundation? I'd thought I just throw that out there, beats cutting up frames unless you really like plastic.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,582

    Default Re: My Wooden PF-120s

    Quote Originally Posted by JRG13 View Post
    You do know Mann lake sells small cell foundation? I'd thought I just throw that out there, beats cutting up frames unless you really like plastic.
    Yes, the people that are doing this are intentionally using plastic...
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Strafford, NH, USA
    Posts
    336

    Default Re: My Wooden PF-120s

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeCurious View Post
    I might order deep pf frames and cut the "foundation" in half. I'll save a little money, and the open space at the bottom of the frame can be used as the bees prefer.
    Why not cut them in half vertically instead of horizontally? Wouldn't you then be able to just pop in the half sheets to the grooved top and bottom bars and not need to worry about supporting the plastic from the top frame while they draw them out?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,582

    Default Re: My Wooden PF-120s

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishman43 View Post
    Why not cut them in half vertically instead of horizontally? Wouldn't you then be able to just pop in the half sheets to the grooved top and bottom bars and not need to worry about supporting the plastic from the top frame while they draw them out?
    To attach the plastic to the topbars I would use a "wax tube fastener" or a hot glue gun.

    When I use wax 4.9mm foundation I buy deeps as well.
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Jamesville, NY
    Posts
    161

    Default Re: My Wooden PF-120s

    I am still trying to get a grip on why small cell plastic seems to be popular. In life, when I can, I generally try to avoid plastic, so I guess I am surprised at how prolific its usage is for small cell. I would assume small cell folks would lean more towards natural foundation building. What am I missing here?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Fayetteville, Arkansas
    Posts
    5,013

    Default Re: My Wooden PF-120s

    Plastic small cell is popular in my view because of a few reasons:

    1. It works.
    2. It is far easier to use than wax.
    3. It can be used any time of year when bees are in the mood to draw comb. They will draw it correctly even in supers during the middle of the summer.I have been using wax for nine years, and I can assure you PF-1xx frames work far better, producing ugly comb only about 1% of the time. To get the same with wax, you have to have the comb drawn at the right time and by bees already regressed.
    4. Michael Bush recommends it.
    5. Most people who use it recommend it.
    6. It is much more economical than using wood frames with foundation.
    7. Foundationless doesn't always turn out how you want it to.

    Plastic is ubiquitous in our environment. It holds virtually all the food you eat at some point. It is literally everywhere. I don't see the problem with it. I have heard a guy eschew plastic frames while also bragging about drinking FGMO from a plastic bottle, demonstrating how safe it was.

    Small cell is not the same thing as foundationless or 'natural cell.' Small cell is a thing, it is 4.9mm cell size. Small cell folks use small cell. Foundationless folks use foundationless. It's as simple as that, they are two different things.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,183

    Default Re: My Wooden PF-120s

    Quote Originally Posted by Beelosopher View Post
    What am I missing here?
    The only reason I am considering it is because it uses an extremely small amount of commercial wax, wax that is known to have chemical residue. The clean wax foundation I have that is SC is lacking any cell walls, so the bees don't do a good job of building SC comb on it, otherwise I'd have no issue using my own wax foundation.
    Regards, Barry

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Myrtle Beach, SC, USA
    Posts
    859

    Default Re: My Wooden PF-120s

    Beecurious are you regressing your bees or are they allready SC.

    I know they do jrg but i am try to regress my bees and I have been told that they will have less trouble drawing out the plastic cells, as as opposed to the regular foundation.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield County, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    3,582

    Default Re: My Wooden PF-120s

    Quote Originally Posted by sfisher View Post
    Beecurious are you regressing your bees or are they allready SC.

    Snip
    I started with two small cell nucs in 2008, and also regressed a package or two with Honey Super Cell.
    BeeCurious
    Trying to think inside the box...

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,439

    Default Re: My Wooden PF-120s

    Ok, my bees never drew out plastic well, but if you can get yours too, it makes some sense. Plastic has it's usefulness. My bees drew the wax foundation out quite nicely, I don't see why they would have issue to it over plastic.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    3,969

    Default Re: My Wooden PF-120s

    I think the issue he's talking about is the bees not drawing 4.9mm cells if he gave them an easy choice.
    Dan

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,439

    Default Re: My Wooden PF-120s

    I see, I guess with wax foundation, they could always chew it and draw whatever they like. I stuck mine right in the brood nest and they drew it fine even in September. Faster than the pf100's that sat unused for 2 months. The frames had brood in under two weeks.

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