Spin Float Seperators

[Ian]

Im looking to buy one of these machines,

Is there a difference in performance between the old spinners and the new spinners ?

does this machine take alot to run it? What I mean is, can you start it in the morning, and run it all day without baby sitting? What usually causes trouble?

Thanks

Ian

[Roland]

I can only speak of the machine from the 60's. There was about 2 minutes of start up attention, maybe 10 minutes at the end of the day, with only the need to "babysit" the barrel of cappings below when it filled up. It did an adequate job of separating the honey, but was NOISY. There was a slight heat exchanger needed to prevent crystallization in the drum. Be aware that an unattended power failure is a real mess.

Crazy Roland

[Ian]

Right I hear about the unattended power failure messes from everyone. Is that because the pump doesnt stop when the spinner kicks out? How much honey does the spinner run in the barrel?

How do you finish off with it? Whats involved? Does it require a 10 min job when breaking for coffee or lunch or some other interruption throughout the work day?

thx

[jim lyon]

The cappings are held in by centrifugal force and if they dont have enough time to spin out they simply fall out if the power stops. I have been around them some and know a little about them but feel like one of the few commercials that have never operated one. We use a Cowen spinner and after our experience with their latest model this year I am thinking a lot like you are at the moment. When the Cowen is operated properly it gets cappings much dryer and rarely aerates the honey but because only about 1/3 of the honey goes through it our tanks really get loaded with wax particularly on a year with such low moisture honey.

[Ian]

ya, Im trying to cut my work load down in the day by not having the chore of skimming tanks and sumps. I dont have a Cowen spinner but a spinner all the same, and it works, cheaply but clean honey in the tank is like a dream to me.

soooo, I suckered you into this conversation nicely,

With all you experience with the spin float, why is it that you do not have one yourself?

[Ian]

And whats up with Cowens latest spinner? Thought they were trouble free,
or is it the dry honey your referring to from this years unusually dry honey harvest.
I had a below average crop due to dryness, but not bad considering. Not once did I ever think of having moisture issues throughout the pulls
dry dry air this year

[jim lyon]

My experience pretty much consists of seeing quite a number of them in operation in others' extracting rooms and talking to the folks that use them. Why don't I use them? I have asked myself that a lot this year. I guess I know with the Cowen I can get my cappings dryer, I have an extracting room designed for it and I am familiar with it. The C&B requires a heat exchanger, an extra pump, and a different style of auger it all adds up to over $30,000 compared with around $9,000 for a Cowen system that I am familiar with. We purchased our first Cowen spinner in the late 1980's and it served us real well for many years. Last year it's age began showing as we had a couple major incidents where things got bent up pretty badly and Cowen offered me a real good trade in for a new one. Unfortunately the new one has had some problems from start up that we had to deal with, once we got things working properly we discovered that the construction isn't as "beefy" as the old one and that it cant tolerate even mild imbalances without gyrating badly. It can usually handle extracting at the rate of about a ton an hour but requires a pretty vigilant eye. This season was a real challenge for it because we were running a lot of honey in the sub 16% range and that made it an even bigger challenge. Add to that all the tank skimmings and you get the picture. I think Cowens are great people and generally build real nice stuff but it dosent appear to me that they have really made an attempt to compete with the C&B. My guess is that they have their plate full with their extractors and other misc. equipment which they do so well that they have decided to stay away from directly competing with C&B's patented system.

[soupcan]

Anyone own or know of anyone who has purchased one of the redesigned Maxant cappings spinners that need no heat exchanger. I understand that they have built a bunch of proto types in the past years & now they have started a production run of quite a few units. We really would like to talk with an owner of one to see if they work properly so to speak!

[Ian]

Is the Maxant spinner just a cappings spinner?

[Ian]

I understand how the machine work, its a centrifuge. Very interesting design.

how do you shut down the machine for coffee, or lunch or some other reason during the day. Does it involve a complete clean out?

[Birds&Bees]

Run it all day, don't shut it down for coffee or lunch. If you need to shut it down, simply dump the honey which doesn't take that long, 10-15 minutes. Start up is simple, just remember to close the ports which hold the honey in the drum. $30k is what you'll need to get set up and in you have the cowen 60, you may want to consider their wax auger/sump to collect all the honey and wax. No wax in your holding tanks is worth it, Wax comes out very dry. You need to remove and empty the drum once a week or after you let it sit for more than a day without putting honey through it. A forklift makes this job simple. Compared to the Cowen spinner I feel this investment is paying for itself with less work and less honey in the wax. You won't regret it, interest rates are cheap if you have to borrow, I'm sure FCC likes your farm.

[Ian]

Ha ha ha, yes Gilles, they like our farm!

So, if I were to piece together a system, used pumps, used heat exchanger, used spinner, make use of my sump to pump from now,
would I be happy with a working system? Does the old spinners work as effectively as the new ones?

I use to use an old Jumbo uncapper. I worked but sometimes thought it created more work than if I were just scratching
then I bought a NEW Cowen uncapper. Best investment of my beekeeping career. I have a kid working it and it just runs, never causes any problems

So when comparing an old spinner to a new one, am I going to wish I just bought a new one?

I know I know $30,000 is an investment Blah blah blah.
BUT we have many places to put money on this farm, and cutting my cost to $15000 used set up is closer to doable

[Allen Martens]

Been using a C&B for the last three years. I'd say for the most part it doesn't require much babysitting but does require a greater level of expertise by the person trouble shooting. Definitely wax processing is no longer the step that slows down extracting rate.

I've done some modifications to the collecting tray to make things simpler and if I were to order one again, I would get them to custom modify the collecting tray to make wax management simpler and less messy ( not sure why C&B hasn't done some of this themselves).

If the tray under the machine is designed well, power outages are not an issue. The honey and wax drops into the tray and cleans up is fast and easy.

I put the spinner into a small insulated room that I can close entrance side with plastic sheeting. That way if we are not extracting for several days I heat the room and I don't have to clean the drum. We usually clean the drum about 2 times a summer at most. The room is facing the extractor and is a bit of an echo chamber so next year I am going to hang plastic strips on the entrance side to see if I can reduce the noise.

A new auger is most likely needed for this system. The cowen honey and wax collection system works well.

Frames need to be in good shape for the heat exchanger. Pieces of wood and wire especially will get caught in the exchanger. Some people I have talked to say they have some major problems in this regard, but it hasn't been a big deal for us (knock on wood).

[Ian]

Thanks for the input. I think I have pretty much the feed back I was looking for.

[Ian]

http://www.maxantindustries.com/spinners.html

does anyone have any experience with this machine? They claim "Auger your slurry to the center opening of the drum. (heat not required)

"http://honeybeeworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=328

[jim lyon]

http://www.maxantindustries.com/spinners.html

does anyone have any experience with this machine? They claim "Auger your slurry to the center opening of the drum. (heat not required)

"http://honeybeeworld.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=328

Nope. " Expect to be able to run 3 drums per hour with reports of 10,000 lbs. in 8 hours?"

[gregstahlman]

my best advice for the heat exchanger is get the end manifold that has a quick attach for cleaning out debris on the end of the tube. it does away with the old motor driven setup and maybe needs to be cleaned out once a week which takes 2 minutes to do. as for power outages and surges on the seperator is concerned. if the power shuts off u have maybe 30 seconds or more to either trip the dump lever. or if the the power surges and shuts the unit down all u have to do it set it to "manual," turn the speed up, and turn back to auto once machine is back up to full speed. without following those steps you will have a mess to clean up

[Ian]

thats useful info to know.

I keep hearing " if the power shuts down you will be cleaning up a mess"
does the honey fall straight down into the wax tub or all over on the floor?

Also, I have been talking to a beekeeper in the chat room, who runs one of these machines. I have always been told that the honey has to be pumped continuously for proper operation except for him, who runs his honey wax in intervals as his trough fills. and from the way he described how the machine operated through out the day I dont know why I have been told it had to be fed continuously,.?

[swarm_trapper]

i have a maxant spiner sitting in the honey house right now hope to start using it this week, could be a fun week. Hope it does everything they say lol. Nick

[jim lyon]

Keep us posted. I am trying to make year end decisions myself. I think the whole "If the power goes out" argument may be a bit overblown. I can't remember the last time it has happened unexpectedly and really, a mess in the honey house? What's new about that.