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  1. #1
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    Dec 2010
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    Graceville, FL
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    4

    Default Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    I have purchased a Cowen 60 Air System with Wax Spinner and putting it in my already built honey house. Concrete floor already poured so what are recommendations on honey sumps? Do I cut concrete and put in floor sump or do I put risers on legs of whole system and install sump on top of concrete? Opinions and explanations of why please. Need to make decision in next few weeks. Thanks in advance!!!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    groveton tx
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    289

    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    They make an auger system for those that pulls honey from the uncapper and from the extractor so an above ground sump would be better. Ask Cowen!!!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
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    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
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    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    I agree, buy the wax collection unit and auger and mix all your cappings and honey, but that does not work through the Cowen wax spinner.

    There are above grade sumps that work well, it stretches out about 4-5 feet.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Visalia, CA USA
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    332

    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    The last three honey houses we've had have all a below grade sump. The holding tank is big enough we catch any frame parts ( wood, wire, plastic foundation) before they get in the pump or heat exchanger. My local beeks are always changing burnt up motors and bent augert from thing that fall in that they don't see.
    David
    beebotanical.com 40 years-4000 colonies-treatment eo's

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Blacksburg, VA
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    592

    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    Rent an electric concrete saw that has a water hose attachment, cut the concrete, hammer it out, and install the sump. You can tent the immediate area of cutting, and with the water, keep down dust. It's not that bad, and once it's done you don't have to do it again.

    I can't speak to the economies of sump vs auger since I don't work in that realm as a sideliner who doesn't have the production of a commercial.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    6,132

    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    We run (about a 1,000 lb.) infloor sump as well. Yes, it does allow you to montor what goes in and pull out the occasional large piece of wood that finds its way in. Also gives you a little buffer for storage if you have any pump or spinner glitches. A morning stir of the sump with a hoe seems to be all we have needed in the way of agitation. Fwiw the moyno suction pipe is adjacent to the capping inlet while the extractor is dumping in on the other end, about 3 to 4 feet away.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
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    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
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    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    No holes in the floor makes for a much nicer clean up job. My old sump pit was hard to clean, that is if you plan on cleaning it

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Visalia, CA USA
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    332

    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    Just a picture of my sumpimage.jpg
    David
    beebotanical.com 40 years-4000 colonies-treatment eo's

  9. #9
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    Jan 2003
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    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
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    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    Nice job, no problem cleaning that space! That looks well planned out.

    My old sump pit and the type most have are small cut outs. I assume that's what the OP is talking about aswell. And anyone who has one of those all have that 'it could be cleaner under there' thought at the end of clean up.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Omaha, NE
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    374

    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    Quote Originally Posted by davidsbees View Post
    Just a picture of my sumpimage.jpg
    On a sump pit like yours, would there be an advantage from pumping out of the bottom? From the underside of the tank?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Visalia, CA USA
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    332

    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    In my old honey house I had the pump under the sump now the pump is so much easier to work on and clean up.
    David
    beebotanical.com 40 years-4000 colonies-treatment eo's

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Omaha, NE
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    374

    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    I meant leave the pump above ground like you have it but pipe it in on bottom side of the sump. Have you ever had problems with the myno pump and the pvc pipe ive always been told to use the grey schedule 80. But i have seen many others with pics like yours.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Visalia, CA USA
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    332

    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    If the suction is from inside or from the bottom there is no difference if the pump is below the sump then it's gravity feed. i think sch 40 is fine I just make sure to rough it up and use primer.
    Ian, Wow the new spinners and heat exchanger are nice I have not seen a new machine close up in years every thing is suppose to be SS these days. Just waiting for that 1 in 20 honey year to up grade ( don't know if that will ever come).
    David
    beebotanical.com 40 years-4000 colonies-treatment eo's

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    6,132

    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    http://s470.photobucket.com/user/jim...56151.jpg.html
    Yes, expensive for sure. The piping shown, from our sump up to the heat exchanger then down to the spinner is 3" SS and cost around $5,000. I am planning on continuing with 2" to the honey tank but after buying the 3" pipe I needed to catch my breath for a year or two. I ordered from the same McMaster site linked earlier in the thread.
    I do think going all SS is a one time purchase that is a worthy goal for the long term as food safety is getting to be a bigger and bigger issue.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Omaha, NE
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    374

    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    I was hoping you would say sump tank will get almost all the way cleaned out with suction on bottom. Instead of always having an inch of honey left in bottom of sump tank

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Miami, Manitoba, Canada
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    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    Quote Originally Posted by davidsbees View Post
    Ian, Wow the new spinners and heat exchanger are nice I have not seen a new machine close up in years every thing is suppose to be SS these days. Just waiting for that 1 in 20 honey year to up grade ( don't know if that will ever come).
    Ya, I have been waiting on this purchase for a while, as compared to my old spinner (an old galvanized screen drum spinner) this one is Cadillac. $25000, for both units... then I bought a old Continental and a used wax collection unit to match
    Ian Steppler >> Canadian Beekeeper's Blog
    www.stepplerfarms.com

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Graceville, FL
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    Quote Originally Posted by davidsbees View Post
    If the suction is from inside or from the bottom there is no difference if the pump is below the sump then it's gravity feed. i think sch 40 is fine I just make sure to rough it up and use primer.
    Ian, Wow the new spinners and heat exchanger are nice I have not seen a new machine close up in years every thing is suppose to be SS these days. Just waiting for that 1 in 20 honey year to up grade ( don't know if that will ever come).
    Thanks for pictures. I have noticed most everyone just uses open sump, no baffles. Is that the way to go or baffles have place in commercial system.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
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    6,132

    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    If you are using a C&B separator you don't want baffles.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Visalia, CA USA
    Posts
    332

    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    Brian, the 2" suction pipe sets on the bottom of the low end of the sump. I have 5 -1/2"x 1" slots cut in the intake pipe that will keep out larger unwanted debris. With a small scraper pushing the honey to the intake you can get most of the honey out.
    David
    beebotanical.com 40 years-4000 colonies-treatment eo's

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Grey County, ON, Canada
    Posts
    136

    Default Re: Cowen 60 Sump In floor or On floor Opinions needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Suchan View Post
    I was hoping you would say sump tank will get almost all the way cleaned out with suction on bottom. Instead of always having an inch of honey left in bottom of sump tank
    The sump I use is about a 135 gallon infloor model with about a 16"x16" piece dropped below the base of the pan by 1-1/2" in one corner where the pump sits. The whole pan has fall to that corner and makes cleanup not so terrible. As Jim said the increased volume lets extraction continue with any pump or spinner related hiccups

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