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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Thanks for letting us know how you got on, Moon. It sounds like that inspector was very helpful to take the time to talk you through all those legal requirements.
    Jeanette
    HiveTasks Software for beekeepers

  2. #22
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Campbell, Wyoming USA
    Posts
    438

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    No problem, yeah the inspector was a really nice guy and very informative. Pretty cut and dried on what I needed to do and was more then happy for me to call him if I had any questions or wanted him to swing back by to see how I should set my honey house up. I don't have the money to insulate, rock, install sinks, and run water out to my shed this year so I think I'll just extract and bottle everything and the sell direct to consumers at craft shows (which according to the inspector is 100% legal, I just can't use a 3rd party). Lesson learned in any case.
    We the willing have done so much with so little for so long we can now do anything with nothing

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Maryville, tn, usa
    Posts
    208

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    sounds like my states rules almost exactly. I'm guessing much like my state theres enough loop holes that you can do what you really want to do.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Campbell, Wyoming USA
    Posts
    438

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by danmcm View Post
    I'm guessing much like my state theres enough loop holes that you can do what you really want to do.
    You read my mind =) I already figured a work around for selling the honey. We're going to market lotions, raw bees wax, lip balm, etc... Non food products in the store (because they don't fall under state regulations for food) and then just put up a sign that says, "If you're interested in RAW, LOCAL, HONEY call us at ###-###-#### for pricing and availability. *NOTE* Raw honey is seasonal and may not be available at all times of year" Or something to that effect. Which according to the inspector is completely legal since I'm selling directly to the consumer and not through a third party. We'll see. Good thinking though danmcm
    We the willing have done so much with so little for so long we can now do anything with nothing

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,515

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    ...according to the inspector is 100% legal, I just can't use a 3rd party...
    I do not understand "3rd party". My understanding as follow:
    1st party you, who made a honey; 2nd party is who purchased bulk honey from you with intention to re-sell it to the 3rd party, store etc. If you sell directly to the store, there is only two parties - you and store manager. I am just thinking if there is loophole in your inspector logic? It looks like if you sell directly to the store, 3-party rule may not be used. Is this right? Also - if you have a stand in the store and sell by yourself - it is only one party - again, you should be OK.

    Regarding sanitary rules - I think it is reasonable to require to have clean facility for eatable product.
    Sergey
    Серёжа, Sergey

  6. #26
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Livermore, CA
    Posts
    1,403

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Cerezha,

    If he sold to the store (1 and 2 parties) the third party would be the consumer that buys the honey from the store.
    Two party is him selling directly to a customer.

    Now if he was to sell a bucket of honey to a customer and that customer bottled it and sold it, would that be considered a third party sell?

    What if the said seller didnt know that the customer had intentions of "cutting" and reselling the honey?
    Coyote Creek Bees

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Posts
    3,075

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    As for the idea of how you are harming other businesses argument. I woudl actually ask her to set down and explain to me in detail exactly how I can do that. In fact if I could I would make it impossible for anyone and everyone to be able to sell one drop of honey. It is called competitions. and I would pay big bucks to be that good at it. Many would pay me really big bucks to work for them being that good at it. I find that when people want to claim I am inconsiderate and hard hearted. showing them just how heartless I can be is educational for them. Would I run Mom and Pop out of business? You bet I would. I would make selling honey on the same scale of someone thinking of making the next ipod type technology. very few would even consider trying.

    Once I had this woman unquestionably believing I desire to run every mom and pop out of business. I woudl then drop hints that since it doesn't really look like i can do that. maybe I will take up selling soaps as well. Maybe just running her out of business will be satisfactory.
    Stand for what you believe, even if you stand alone.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Slidell, LA, USA
    Posts
    259

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Seems like what you discovered is the basics of a commercial kitchen. Did he talk about proper procedure for cleaning utensils and safe food handeling? Good info!

    Maybe not having a third party involved leaves the liability trail directly in your lap. There is no one else to blame a problem on!

    All this information is available but you have to work hard to find and understand what is appropriate for what you want to do and where you want to do it.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,515

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by BeeGhost View Post
    If he sold to the store (1 and 2 parties) the third party would be the consumer that buys the honey from the store.
    Two party is him selling directly to a customer.
    - I got it, thanks for clarification.

    Now if he was to sell a bucket of honey to a customer and that customer bottled it and sold it, would that be considered a third party sell?
    - I quess, it is called capitalism, making money from money, not creating additional product... nothing personal.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  10. #30
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Concord, CA
    Posts
    4,163

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Basically you have to sell to the end user, its the same where I live. I know beekeepers who hire people to sell at farmers markets for them as there representative.
    You just can't sell it for someone to re-sell it. Or sell wholesale which is the same thing.
    Dan

  11. #31
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    DFW area, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,100

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    ...snip...After it was on the stand for 2-3 days a woman who also has products for sale in the store raised a big fit about it...snip...
    I wonder, has this person of unique personality properly passed those same hoops? Inquiring minds want to know....
    LeeB
    I try to learn from my mistakes, and from yours when you give me a heads up :)

  12. #32
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Campbell, Wyoming USA
    Posts
    438

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    No the third party isn't the consumer. The Consumer is always the second party. I being the first party, selling to the consumer being the second party. If I were to use another party to sell to the consumer the consumer is still the second party they are just going through a middle man (i.e. the third party) to purchase the product. Hence the term, using a third party to sell my product. The sell doesn't become the second party and the consumer the third (they do if you're looking at the chronological time line in which the product is sold) they are simply the middle man overseeing the transaction and subtracting small fee for mitigating it. As I am to understand it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lburou View Post
    I wonder, has this person of unique personality properly passed those same hoops? Inquiring minds want to know....
    From what I gather yeah she has had to jump through the same hoops; however, to hear her tell the story she's done it kicking and screaming and is constantly butting heads with the inspector. In fact, she told me not to believe everything the inspector said because he's not god and his word isn't law (uhm... yeah it is?). She said she ends up getting into arguments and snafu's with this guy all the time because he just doesn't know what he's talking about and she's constantly having to fight with him on everything. Which that in and of itself blew my mind because the gentleman I spoke with was extremely knowledgeable, insightful, and helpful. So I'm not sure what this woman's problem was. Just looking to cause problems?
    We the willing have done so much with so little for so long we can now do anything with nothing

  13. #33
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Forest grove, Ore USA
    Posts
    192

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    I have been looking into this extensively here in Oregon. We have a 20 hive rule that says that less than twenty hives you can bottle and sell retail without any sort of commercial kitchen. Wholesale production and over twenty hives require commercial kitchen and food producer lisence, but even the people from the state agency that oversee it admit that there is contradictory language currently on the books. The lady I spoke to flat out told me that they really don't have any interest in policing small honey producers at the farmers market.

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