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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Campbell, Wyoming USA
    Posts
    438

    Default Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    So the wife and I set up a little honey stand inside a store that allows local people to sell local crafts and wares. We only had 19 bottles on the shelf and all the label said on it was 'Raw Wyoming Honey' from Moon Apiaries. After it was on the stand for 2-3 days a woman who also has products for sale in the store raised a big fit about it. Saying we need licenses, insurance, inspection certificates, and that the whole process would take up to 3 months. So in the interest of avoiding conflict and getting this lady whipped into a tizzy we went down and pulled all of our honey off the store shelves until we talked to the food and health inspector. When we were in there this woman was there at the same time and started giving me the riot act on how honey and dairy products were the two hardest products to sell as a small mom and pop operation. She sold goat milk soaps and lotions as well as some herbal tea's and other products. She told me the risk of botulism from honey required special licensing to sell it. I told her that it was impossible for honey to contain botulism due to it's anti-bacterial properties. As a matter of fact I told her, honey is actually used in bandages for burn victims and is currently being tested to treat MRSA as it has showed promise in treating antibiotic resistant strains of the infection. She about went through the roof raising her voice telling me it was illegal to sell anything making claims like that and that the FDA would basically seize everything I own and fine me 25,000 dollars for even mentioning something like that. I politely informed her that she didn't know what it was she was talking about and she definitely didn't know anything about honey but that we would be happy to speak with the health inspector before returning our product to the shelf. She seemed combative about the whole idea to say the least.

    Just wanted to vent figured you guys could throw your two cents in on the whole deal.

    *edit*

    Just as an after thought as I was re-reading this. She got upset and said the honey needed to be labeled as Raw honey. When we told her it was labeled as raw honey she got really upset and told us it was illegal for us to sell it as organic honey. I told her as nicely as possible there was no indication that we were selling or labeling our honey as organic or to pass it off as organic. She proceeded to tell me that unless it was certified as organic we needed to have the honey's expiration date posted on it. I tried to explain to her that honey didn't expire. In fact I told her that honey had been found in ancient Egyptian tombs that was 3,000 plus years old and was deemed to still be edible. She told me that was because that was real pure honey before insecticides and pesticides came onto the scene and now honey would expire after a few years due to the pesticides. I just gave up trying and figured the lady was batty.
    We the willing have done so much with so little for so long we can now do anything with nothing

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    736

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    If you always do what you always did, you'll always get what you always got!

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    North Tazewell, Virginia
    Posts
    345

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Sounds like a hatefull bitter old lady. Tell her the next time she talks the talk she can hire a attorney and you will see her in court cause she is definately a fool.
    Last edited by Barry; 10-07-2012 at 10:20 AM. Reason: language

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Kingsport, Sullivan, Tennessee
    Posts
    789

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    To paraphrase a great lawman we all knew: "She's a NUT!!" -js

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Rader, Greene County, Tennessee, USA
    Posts
    6,755

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riverratbees View Post
    Sounds like a hatefull bitter old lady ...
    Hey, what's up with the nasty attitude about "old" lady? There was nothing Moon's post that said anything about the woman's age! One day, if you are lucky, you will be old too ...



    There are plenty of young people that have difficulty distinguishing between "holes in the ground", to use your phrase. Fear and ignorance are equal opportunity employers.
    Last edited by Rader Sidetrack; 10-06-2012 at 11:37 PM.
    Graham
    USDA Zone 7A Elevation 1400 ft

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    3,068

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Honey does contain botulism spores, it's why you can't feed it to babies. I would've told her to pound sand.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    She may have been planning to sell honey and she's upset that you beat her to it.
    Dan www.boogerhillbee.com
    Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Santa Rosa County, Florida
    Posts
    429

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgolden View Post
    I am old enough to remember when this uproar started.We,the beekeepers,did not challenge this piece of nonsense and now we are stuck with it.It turned out that the real culprit was Karo syrup that was fed to the very few infants that developed botulism.There were plenty of articles in Bee Culture and ABJ at the time.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Perth Western Australia
    Posts
    197

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    You hit an old witch here. In Australian you can use a "use by" or "best by" . Kill one of her arguments by putting a date of say 3 years, by that time most people have finished the honey anyway. You may want o ask her if there "food" products are produced in approved premises. Her soaps could contain disease. Ask her for all of her certificate.

    Good Luck

    Geoff

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    105

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Here are some some useful links regarding 'use by', 'sell by' and 'best before' dates for foods:

    USDA http://www.fsis.usda.gov/Fact_Sheets...roduct_Dating/
    Australia (NSW) http://www.foodauthority.nsw.gov.au/...-use-by-dates/

    The USDA information declares that "product dating is not generally required by Federal regulations" but then goes on to mention that some state laws may require product dating. If you voluntarily put a date on your honey, there is a prescribed format that you will need to follow. Pretty simple stuff - guidelines are on the webpage.

    The Australian government website says that "All food with a shelf life of less than 2 years must be date marked." I checked a popular Australian-brand honey bottle and it only seems to have a 'packed date' stamped on it.
    Jeanette
    HiveTasks Software for beekeepers

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia
    Posts
    105

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    I also had a look for laws specific to Wyoming. From what I can understand, Wyoming considers honey to be a processed food. It also seems that honey falls into the category of 'Commercial processed' not 'Home processed' food which could mean getting a licence. You might like to have a look at these links for yourself:

    Wyoming Dept of Agriculture 2012 requirements (see page 2) http://www.worlandchamber.com/commun...safety2012.pdf
    Wyoming Farmers Markets (go to page 25) http://www.wyomingfarmersmarkets.org...ers_Market.pdf
    Wyoming Guidlines 2008 (see section 'When is a licence required?') http://www.lovellinc.org/images/FMGuidelines.pdf

    *edit*

    These links are focused primarily on Farmer's Markets. It could be worth checking with the Dept of Agriculture whether the same laws apply to selling from a stall at a retail outlet (the hobby shop).
    Jeanette
    HiveTasks Software for beekeepers

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Redlands, Ca
    Posts
    43

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Just my two cents...you did a great job handeling her and dealing with her rage. I'm not sure I could of done the same

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Ste. Rose, MB
    Posts
    31

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Honey is the only product sold in stores without a best before date. Bottled water has a BB date.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    DFW area, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,140

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moon View Post
    ...snip...After it was on the stand for 2-3 days a woman who also has products for sale in the store raised a big fit about it...snip...
    I wonder, has this person of unique personality properly passed those same hoops? Inquiring minds want to know....
    LeeB
    I try to learn from my mistakes, and from yours when you give me a heads up :)

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Campbell, Wyoming USA
    Posts
    438

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    No the third party isn't the consumer. The Consumer is always the second party. I being the first party, selling to the consumer being the second party. If I were to use another party to sell to the consumer the consumer is still the second party they are just going through a middle man (i.e. the third party) to purchase the product. Hence the term, using a third party to sell my product. The sell doesn't become the second party and the consumer the third (they do if you're looking at the chronological time line in which the product is sold) they are simply the middle man overseeing the transaction and subtracting small fee for mitigating it. As I am to understand it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lburou View Post
    I wonder, has this person of unique personality properly passed those same hoops? Inquiring minds want to know....
    From what I gather yeah she has had to jump through the same hoops; however, to hear her tell the story she's done it kicking and screaming and is constantly butting heads with the inspector. In fact, she told me not to believe everything the inspector said because he's not god and his word isn't law (uhm... yeah it is?). She said she ends up getting into arguments and snafu's with this guy all the time because he just doesn't know what he's talking about and she's constantly having to fight with him on everything. Which that in and of itself blew my mind because the gentleman I spoke with was extremely knowledgeable, insightful, and helpful. So I'm not sure what this woman's problem was. Just looking to cause problems?
    We the willing have done so much with so little for so long we can now do anything with nothing

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Forest grove, Ore USA
    Posts
    192

    Default Re: Trying to sell in a local hobby store, ran into some... problems.

    I have been looking into this extensively here in Oregon. We have a 20 hive rule that says that less than twenty hives you can bottle and sell retail without any sort of commercial kitchen. Wholesale production and over twenty hives require commercial kitchen and food producer lisence, but even the people from the state agency that oversee it admit that there is contradictory language currently on the books. The lady I spoke to flat out told me that they really don't have any interest in policing small honey producers at the farmers market.

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