Africanized Bees

[TooFarGone]

Paul M

What is AMM?

Hey, I know where Port LaVaca is, it is right next to Seadrift! (Used to compete in the Texas Water Safari, finished at Seadrift)- Actually about 30 miles east of Victoria on the gulf coast, south of Houston...

Here is another highly regarded bee vac (no personal experience with it, but the one I will probably build)

BRAIN FART- Edited to add link to the Bushkill Bee Vac

http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/bee-vac/

[Lburou]

Paul M

What is AMM?

AMM (Apis Millifera Millifera):The European dark bee (Apis mellifera mellifera) was domesticated in modern times, and taken to North America in colonial times. These small, dark-colored honey bees are sometimes called the German black bee, although they occurred originally from Britain to eastern Central Europe.

Brother Adam concluded that the AMM is a descendant of the 'Telle' bee of Northern Africa, so, most all our bees have roots in Africa.

[Paul McCarty]

AMM - Apis Melliferia Melliferia... the old Black Bee. A lot of the wild bees in NM seem to show signs of being their descendants in my opinion- well mostly the bees you find in the pine forests up in the mountains.

They say back in the Spanish colonial days, the Spanish brought over the Iberian bee. Those bees were a mix of AMM and Tunisian (African). I am quite convinced their descendants are what I am seeing, after they have hybridized for many generations over here.

I am overwintering 5 hives of them plus a bee tree (awaiting my Swarm Harvester for starts next season).

[alexanderbuzzsaw]

I have set there just about 5 feet away and not in their flight path and in about 3 to 5 minutes they were all around me and hitting into me. I got the smoker and put smoke on them to settle them down and they just went crazy.
Some of These bees are big and some are small I’m talking about ½ inch long does this make any since.
I need bee’s to pollinate my produce and even if there AHB I still need them.
What if I put up an 8 foot wall where I put the hive so they cannot see anybody from the front or even put the wall on all three sides and leave the back open would this help.
I will take pictures of the bee’s and post them won’t be till Wednesday, right now I’m out of town and won’t be back till Wednesday. Thanks to all of you for the support and remarks I’m not into killing anything unless it enters the house then its war but only what enters the house!
I live where there are rattle snakes and they don’t scare me half as much as these AHB!
I have stepped on rattle snakes and never gotten bit also most of the time they will let you know that you’re to close so for closing two things I’m afraid of ABH and SPIDERS!

[Jaseemtp]

Alex,
If you are going to go through the trouble of removing them and them trying to put them into a hive, requeen them. Now your a big boy and can do what ever you want but that's my suggestion. I understand the need for bees on your place but it does not warrant over aggressive bees.
So rehive them and kill the queen and install a queen from a reputable supplier.
Or kill them and purchase some nucs or packages in the spring

[alexanderbuzzsaw]

I will take your suggestion and kill the queen but should I buy the new queen first and then when I get her in kill the ABH queen
Thanks

[Lburou]

Killing any queen before you have the replacement in hand puts you in a bind if there is a problem supplying the new queen, so get the new queen first.

[alexanderbuzzsaw]

Thanks I will do that

[Paul McCarty]

I definitely don't recommend defensive bees to a person who has been around bees for long.

[alexanderbuzzsaw]

Well thats ok I was going to get them anyway just wonted someone who had used a vac on ABH and what the effect was Thanks for all the input.

[Jaseemtp]

using a vac on just about any honey bee removal will tick em off. if you are going to do the removal I would suggest using a little smoke but not to much as it can cause the queen to run and hide and make it more difficult to find her.
What I would do is to perform the removals, set the devil bees up in their new hives. If you have queen excluders set them on top of the bottom boards to keep the ahb queen from leaving. wait a few days and provide them with plenty of sugar water. after you are sure they have settled in and accepted the new hive as home. order your new queens. you will be hard pressed to find queens this time of year of you are planning on doing the removal now. Something you can do is if you have to get them out now is go ahead and do it as stated above and just leave their queen until spring. in spring their numbers will be lower and they will be more likely to accept a new queen. again this is just what i would do and your milage may vary

[alexanderbuzzsaw]

That's what I will do I have to get them out that's my woodshop and also where I store my dryed wood. I harvest my own lumber to sell and also sell wood chips and barbeque wood so the bees have to be moved.
Thanks

[Jaseemtp]

do you have the equipment to place them in hives? When you perfom the removal make sure some one knows where you are and what you are doing. It would be helpful if you found some one in you local bee club to maybe be brave / crazy enough to help you.
by setting the queen excluder ontop of your bottom board you allow the workers to come and go but keep the queen contained. then set you hive bodies ontop of the queen excluder. I would then do my best to feed them so that they make it through winter with as big a cluster as possible. If you try to cut and save the honey comb you will be in for a big big mess. One thing you could do was after the removals and the bees are setteled in, just open feed the honey back to them. down that far south Texas you should still have plenty of warm weather ahead of you.

[Lburou]

...snip... If you try to cut and save the honey comb you will be in for a big big mess. One thing you could do was after the removals and the bees are setteled in, just open feed the honey back to them...snip...

I would mount the brood comb in frames for sure, if not, the bees won't have any reason to stay in your new hive. Once you have brood combs in there, its not much more trouble to fill the hive body with combs containing pollen and honey to give them a kick start. JMO As stated, your mileage may vary.

Let us know hwow it worked out.

[TooFarGone]

Link to a frame for holding cut-out brood:

http://www.beesource.com/build-it-yo...tching-frames/

I forgot to paste the link for the Bushkill bee vac- you could build one pretty easily. Read his descriptions on its use, particularly the parts about adding back brood and honey. If I were in your shoes, I would put a queen excluder between the boxes to limit the number of frames you have to look at to find the queen.

http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/bee-vac/

I really like the UltraBreeze bee suit, pricy but has full length leg zippers:

http://ultrabreezesuits.com/

Mann Lake and Pigeon Mountain bee suits- similar to above but no full length leg zippers(It gets Dang hot where you live)
http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeepin...s/page110.html

http://www.pigeonmountaintrading.com...-bee-wear.aspx

Hope it helps.

[alexanderbuzzsaw]

I have look called searched for anyone to help me with no luck and the one’s I ask said H_ _ L no so I’m on my own. I know I will have to put my dog up in the house and he won’t like that but at least he will be alive. I have all it takes to get the bees my concern is I will be tearing into the wall and using the smoke as I do it. I have to vacuum up the bees and then get the broad out and the honey comb and wire it to the frames. I’m not going to keep any for myself the bees get it all.
I have noticed in the evening around 4:30 pm there coming in with pollen and not just a few bees either.
I will be getting them right after the wife goes to work which is 8 am no sooner are no later 8 am on the dot she goes to work.
After I get the bees and put the broad in and the honey comb do I have to leave the hive there over night I would sure like to move them A.S.A.P.

[Paul McCarty]

I use a bee-vac on aggressive bees all the time. Just have to make sure you are suited up good with lots of layers and the cracks are all sealed. There is a tipping point in bee mass, where they decide they are doomed and give up the fight. Usually it is when you are about halfway done.

If they are too aggressive, I just destroy them with soapy water. Usually these are the hives that hit me right off with 200+ guards or more. A couple of dozen head butters are sort of expected when I destroy their home; those bees don't bother me and usually calm down when I hive them. The others - history!

When you remove them - vac, vac, vac... then use a little smoke to get them off the comb you want to cut, cut it and repeat until done. It's much easier to have a helper to strap the removed comb into empty frames, but I have done it alone before. It just takes longer and makes things more complicated. I have found big rubber bands and foundationless frames are the best for me for installing removed brood comb. All you need is a few pieces of brood comb and you can just scrape out the rest and feed it back to them. Especially if they are attacking you. Just have to make sure you get all of it. Ice chests work best for putting the honey/comb into.

Make sure someone knows you are doing it and are around to help or at least call 911.

[TooFarGone]

I have never done any of this, but it seems like putting the bee vac up to the opening where they are coming out for 10 or 15 minutes might be a good idea. If they came out with smoke, I might then put in a little smoke to get more of them contained in the vacuum before trying ot open the wall. The Bushkillfarms bee vac sucks them directly into a hive body so you don't have to transfer them later.

I would probably have a pump sprayer full of soapy water pressurized and ready to go in case you needed to invoke the nuclear option....

Bushkill use video (I am not related to these guys, just looks like a great idea, and you can build your own)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjA04...ture=endscreen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=...ture=endscreen

A Youtube video of the system in use
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYjPMFtRSnY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMGea...ture=endscreen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODrQp...ture=endscreen
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODrQp...ture=endscreen

[alexanderbuzzsaw]

That’s the beevac I made and going to use and I may wait till this weekend to get the bee’s. I’m trying to get the wife to set in the car about 50 feet away and watch me. I will have a sprayer there full of soapy water incase things go south on me. I will have video on it and I will post it. Thanks for all the help.