Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 38
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Macon, GA USA
    Posts
    953

    Default Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    Apparently both methods can achieve an efficacy rate in the mid-90s if done correctly. Pros and cons as I understand them:

    Vaporizing is fast but requires a heating element and an energy source and fumes may not be healthy for the beekeeper. Dribbling only requires mixing OA (3.2% I think) in 1:1 sugar syrup and a large syringe but must be done while bees are clustered and broodless in cold weather and takes longer per hive. I have also heard the dribble method may be a little more harmful to the bees but that may have been due to inaccurate dosing.

    FWIW, I have heard rumblings that the EPA is very close to officially approving OA for use in beehives. Apparently they will "hold the license" which precludes a commercial entity from having to pay a huge amount of money to get the approval. Although the folks I talked to weren't sure which method would be approved, they expected it would be the dribble method probably due to the danger of OA vapors.

    Curious what folks experienced with these methods think about one vs. the other.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Quincy, Mass USA
    Posts
    233

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    Randy Oliver has done some pretty extensive work that might be worth taking a look at.....

    articles-by-publication-date
    Since '12 Zone 7a 3H TF SC 2H OAV SC

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manning, SC
    Posts
    2,483

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    As a seller of vaporizers, I can tell you this. Most commercial folks use the dribble method. It's quick and easy. 2 workers can quickly do a yard. They don't necessarily use a syringe, but a hand sprayer. Open the hive, spray & close. Vaporizing takes longer, but does not require that you open the hive. Many hobbyists and some side-liners use it as again, you need not open the hive. Some use 2 and sometimes more vaporizers. Quick and easy for one person. Used with the proper safety equipment, OAV is not a health hazard.

    I've also heard that the EPA will approve OA for use in beehives. Not sure what method, OAV or OAD........but probably OAD.
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the Varrox Mite Killing
    OA Vaporizer "One of the highest ranked" by R. Oliver

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    Here in "guidelines pdf", you have a study about oxalic in the dribbling method, doses and way for application (sorry, its in portuguese) :

    http://www.dzoo.uevora.pt/index.php/...ontra_a_varroa

    Oxalic acid is not approved in all EU countries (in Portugal we are still waiting...) , but some beekeepers as I, are using it, mainly in the dribbling form. I have never used it in vaporizer, as I do not have the equipment and I thing its a little more complicated.

    Dribbling is very easy and there is not the risk of inhaling the fumes. I do it alone, and it does not take more time per hive than putting strips of Apistan or Apivar.

    I apply it in the first week of January, as is the month that the hives have less brood but, the rate of success is low as in all countries of southern Europe, because there is , even in that month, 2 to 3 frames of brood and oxalic only kills foretic mites.
    Even so, is useful to lower the count for one more month, so we can have higher temperatures to use another product (usually formic).

    When diluting oxalic, you must pay attention to whether oxalic type you are using, if dihydrated CAS No. : 6153-56-6 or anhydrous CAS N. :144-62-7 and take that in account for the weight of acid you use.

    The first time I used it , there was a mistake in the lab and they sold me anhydrous for dehydrated. As a result the concentration was higher, with heavier bee mortality . I only do one treatment and only once tried a second one 15 days apart. The second one had higher mortality. There is always adult bee mortality, and a delaying of the activity of the queen, but in middle spring they are to the point. In 12 years of use, never had problems with queens.

    OA is very good in countries of central / north Europe where brood is suspended in winter. In south Europe, where there is brood all year round, is not so good... but it gives us time to have temperatures to use more efficient methods, and indeed the only one we can use in low temperatures.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,544

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    Quote Originally Posted by GaSteve View Post
    ....Curious what folks experienced with these methods think about one vs. the other.
    My understanding is that dribbling method can be applied only for broodless colonies at the end of season and once (smaller total dose). Evaporation can be used anytime during the active period, often a few times in the row to address the brood issue. In terms of efficiency, both methods are about the same, but keeping in mind that dribbling is used once and vaporizing 2-3 times, the absolute efficiency of dribbling is higher (my opinion).
    I have to admit, that I personally do not treat, but I did quite extensive analysis of available treatment options in case I need to treat. For myself, I choose OA vaporizing because in my climate (SoCal) we have no brood break. For colder climate I would choose dribbling because it is much more controllable and easy. There is another great anti-varroa method for cold climate so called "Thermo-camera." Bees are heated up to 48(???)oC in special camera, which caused mites to drop. I believe, originally, it was invented in Japan, than Russians improved it and now Germans are selling commercial apparatus (same principle, but different from classical "Thermo-camera"). Please, search internet for details. You may try Russian: пчёлы термокамера
    Серёжа, Sergey

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Quincy, Mass USA
    Posts
    233

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    I prefer the OAV as it is effective and my understanding is that it is less risk to the colony..... Breathing is no problem as I always stand upwind... Only downside is that you have to do multiple treatments to as it doesn't get the mites under capped cells... No problem for me since I am a backyard beek but would be a hassle if I kept outyards....
    Since '12 Zone 7a 3H TF SC 2H OAV SC

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Charlotte, NC
    Posts
    664

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob J View Post
    I prefer the OAV as it is effective and my understanding is that it is less risk to the colony..... Breathing is no problem as I always stand upwind... Only downside is that you have to do multiple treatments to as it doesn't get the mites under capped cells... No problem for me since I am a backyard beek but would be a hassle if I kept outyards....
    The jury isn't in for me on the efficacy of OA, but I used it and will be checking the hives in about 2 weeks. I still have 1 hive that gets treatment #3 today. It seems to be that the exposure to the beek from the vaporizer is less than from the dribble. I haven't tried the dribble, but I know that it involves mixing the chemicals and handling them in liquid form.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Weeki Wachee, Florida,USA
    Posts
    2,065

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    Quote Originally Posted by GaSteve View Post
    FWIW, I have heard rumblings that the EPA is very close to officially approving OA for use in beehives.
    I guess this means pure OA will be taken off the shelf and unavailable in the USA.

    Hoard now or you'll be stuck ordering it from Australia.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,544

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    Quote Originally Posted by dsegrest View Post
    ...I know that it involves mixing the chemicals and handling them in liquid form.
    Dissolving OA in syrup is much-much less dangerous procedure than breathing vapors. Proper PPE for dribbling would be simple nitrile gloves and some splash protection for your eyes. In case of vapors PPE would be (my guess) face mask with respirator, gloves and some coveralls to minimize skin exposure to the vapors. The biggest danger from OA vapors would be to your lungs and eyes.
    Серёжа, Sergey

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Manning, SC
    Posts
    2,483

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    The biggest danger from OA vapors would be to your lungs and eyes.
    With adequate protection and standing "up-wind" both of those dangers are alleviated............
    http://OxaVap.com Your source for the Varrox Mite Killing
    OA Vaporizer "One of the highest ranked" by R. Oliver

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Pennsylvania/Florida
    Posts
    254

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    Quote Originally Posted by Mbeck View Post
    I guess this means pure OA will be taken off the shelf and unavailable in the USA.

    Hoard now or you'll be stuck ordering it from Australia.
    Haha

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Stilwell, KS
    Posts
    1,918

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    Although I have never tried it, dribbling sounds messy and I don't like the idea drenching my bees, especially if it is cold weather when no brood is present. I am also not sure how it can be faster than OAV, per treatment; you don't have to take the hive apart and it only takes a few minutes per hive. I guess the 3 application thing makes dribbling faster in the long run though. I only treat 4 to 5 hives, so I dot see OVA as a problem.

    Breathing OVA is awful and dangerous. I treat on nice warm fall days when little breeze is present, have a long wire on my vaporizer, and stand far up wind. Just a whiff is enough to make you choke; badly. I have never taken a full-blown hit of white vapor, but I imaging doing so would cause sever problems. That said, I don't wear a respirator, even though I have several.
    Honey Badger Don't Care ಠ_ಠ ~=[,,_,,]:3

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    1,014

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    Quote Originally Posted by Mbeck View Post
    I guess this means pure OA will be taken off the shelf and unavailable in the USA.

    Hoard now or you'll be stuck ordering it from Australia.
    Now THAT was funny!
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Lisbon, Portugal
    Posts
    27

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    dribbling sounds messy
    No . Its easy and simple.

    I am also not sure how it can be faster than OAV, per treatment
    Taking out the roof, the inner cover, filling the syringe, dribbling 50 ml of the solution, and closing the hive takes one minute.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Salem, Oregon
    Posts
    1,014

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    Quote Originally Posted by Nabber86 View Post
    I am also not sure how it can be faster than OAV, per treatment; you don't have to take the hive apart and it only takes a few minutes per hive.
    Several years ago, I hurt my hand and had it all bandaged up just as I was getting ready to dribble.
    I called a LARGE and very well known beekeeper who told me to just dribble from the top. Don't take the hives apart.
    I realized that it was going to be that or nothing, so away I went.
    I was very happy with the results!
    So that's how we have done it every since.
    Pop the lid, 7 - 9ml per seam of 3.4% Knock 'em dead!
    And now you want to talk about fast?!!!
    Try it on a few pallets and do your own testing.
    I think you may be surprised!
    I have exactly ONE hive more than you.
    That makes my opinion beyond question.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,544

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    Quote Originally Posted by snl View Post
    With adequate protection and standing "up-wind" both of those dangers are alleviated............
    Yes, the key words are adequate protection
    Серёжа, Sergey

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pike, Pennsylvania, USA
    Posts
    295

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    What is the mixture ratio using sugar syrup?

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Downingtown, PA
    Posts
    252

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    Papar -

    Randy Oliver's site has lots of info on OA treatments.

    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/arti...lication-date/

    The link entitled "Oxalic Acid - Part 1" talks about the dribble method. There is a link off the part 1 page to a treatment table showing formula's for mixing. Following is the link to the treatment table:

    http://scientificbeekeeping.com/oxal...eatment-table/

    I used the weak mix (2.5%) last winter.

    PAHUnter62

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Winder, GA
    Posts
    45

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    Quote Originally Posted by HarryVanderpool View Post
    Several years ago, I hurt my hand and had it all bandaged up just as I was getting ready to dribble.
    I called a LARGE and very well known beekeeper who told me to just dribble from the top. Don't take the hives apart.
    I realized that it was going to be that or nothing, so away I went.
    I was very happy with the results!
    So that's how we have done it every since.
    Pop the lid, 7 - 9ml per seam of 3.4% Knock 'em dead!
    And now you want to talk about fast?!!!
    Try it on a few pallets and do your own testing.
    I think you may be surprised!

    So if I use all mediums and the brood nest is 2 or 3 boxes I don't need to take the hive apart? I can just dribble straight down from the top?
    That is really simple. I was under the assumption that I'd have to take my hive apart and do each separate. The idea of that makes me nervous in the cold weather.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts
    1,426

    Default Re: Oxalic Acid Vaporizing vs. Dribbling

    If you dribble OA in the winter..early Jan...does the cold moisture cause issue in the hive? I ask as there much discussion of methods to minimize moisture in hives in cold weather.



    Quote Originally Posted by HarryVanderpool View Post
    Several years ago, I hurt my hand and had it all bandaged up just as I was getting ready to dribble.
    I called a LARGE and very well known beekeeper who told me to just dribble from the top. Don't take the hives apart.
    I realized that it was going to be that or nothing, so away I went.
    I was very happy with the results!
    So that's how we have done it every since.
    Pop the lid, 7 - 9ml per seam of 3.4% Knock 'em dead!
    And now you want to talk about fast?!!!
    Try it on a few pallets and do your own testing.
    I think you may be surprised!
    Janne....first hives April 2013, 19 hives, treat, plant zone 8b, at sea level, latitude 49.13, longitude 123.06

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Ads