Plan for regression?

[r hayden]

Hi all, first time poster, soon to be new beekeeper, please keep this in mind as you reed my plan for regression.

I'll be getting a nuc early next year and I want to get them on Mann Lake PF100 small cells. I'll leave out the "minor" details so this post won't run forever.

My plan is to block off the equivalent of two frames on one side and three frames on the other side of a 10 frame hive body then put the five frames from the nuc in the center. Over this I will put a HB with the PF100's and then a top feeder.

My hope is that the queen and workers will move up into the HB with PF100's and begin to draw comb and fill it with brood. After I've confirmed the queen has moved up and is laying I will put a queen excluder between the bottom and top HB's. After I've confirmed the brood in the lower HB has hatched out I'll remove it.

I know this plan might need some tweaking, but do yo think it's a plausible plan of action? Or am I asking for trouble?
My thinking is that it will be less stressful and less work for all involved.

Two questions, first, will workers stay in the lower HB to care for the brood?
Second, once the original nuc frames are empty of brood can I leave those frames out so they can clean them up?

Thanks for your input.
Rob

[mmmooretx]

I have not played with the small cell foundation yet, but assuming that they build comb and the queen moves up to lay eggs there I think you will be OK. You could be caught in a half way house where the PF100's get filled with honey and the queen does not move up also. I am running some foundationless and they are still pulling 5.5 cells on it for both honey and brood.

[jadell]

I have a couple of suggestions:

First, have you tried to contact the NUC supplier and see if they will use your equipment? Some places will, and you'll be ahead of the game.

Second, it's always best to start with at least two hives. You'll learn the importance of this the first time you steal from Peter to give to Paul in order for one hive to "make it."

Thirdly, regression is a gradual thing, unless you do a "shake-down." I would not advise a "shake-down" on a NUC. They need every little bit of help they can get. Just gradually add your new frames to the box until you get them into ten frames, and go from there. Then you can slowly remove the old frames later in the year.

In my experience with moving to small cell this year, I've noticed that every queen I have prefers to lay in the smaller cells. Just my observations, and I hope they helped. Good luck.

[r hayden]

Just what I thought, I ask a few questions, get a few answers, and now I have A LOT more to think about, learn and ask!!! haha.

Never thought about getting into a "half way house" problem, does that happen often?

I'll ask the nuc supplier about using my equipment. I'd like to have two nucs but for now just trying to keep costs down - equipment and bees. Hopefully I'll be able to add one or two more next year.

The reason I want to block off some of the original hive is so I don't have to move the frames with brood around. I assumed that this would make life easier on the girls.

Thanks for the info.

[sweetacres]

I had two nucs that went to small cell this summer without any regression at all.

Last fall I purchased some PF-105 Plastic Frames with 4.9 cell size from Mann Lake. I wanted to try small cell for myself. I thought I would take a found swarm or shook swarm and put them on the brand new frames. But, the opportunity never presented itself or the timing wasn’t right, so the frames sat there all summer.

In August I needed to super the 5 frame nucs I started for overwintering. I didn’t have any extra frames on hand, so I used some the small cell frames. I thought they could draw them out any way they liked and I would worry about it later. So I wound up with nucs that had a combination of large size comb and small size foundation. Both nucs drew the small cell frames to their correct size and the queens were laying in them.

[Rader Sidetrack]

I'd like to have two nucs but for now just trying to keep costs down - equipment and bees. Hopefully I'll be able to add one or two more next year.

If you purchased two packages instead of one nuc you would eliminate the conversion issue. Two packages would likely be a little more cash than one nuc, but not by much. Yes you would need more hive boxes, but there is a lot of value in having two hives compared to only a single colony. The first time you say to yourself "I wonder what's going on here?" or need to fix a brood problem you will realize two hives was a very good decision.

If purchasing the extra hive equipment is a financial burden, take a look at the plans offered free in the Build It Yourself section of Beesource and see if you can make some of it yourself. After all, you've got all winter.

[JRG13]

My bees don't like plastic, but they drew out 7 frames of small cell foundation (wax, Mann Lake) in the last two weeks. Not bad for this late in the season and there's brood in it already.

[wanderyr]

It sounds like you aren't planning on going foundationless. If this is true, you have all the time in the world to remove the large-cell frames in the future. The only problem that I know of having a hive with mixed-sized bees is that they will try to build different-sized cells if they are left to their own devices... But, since you are providing PF-100's, any size bee should draw them out small-cell.