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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,531

    Default american foul brood

    after reading the 'unique forum rules', i have reconsidered and would like to continue to be part of this forum.

    i have made my approach known, but i can respect the purpose of this forum and abide by those rules.

    i especially liked sol's invitation to "Feel free to ask any and all serious questions and engage in spirited discussion and learning".

    so here goes.

    i would like to present a hypothetical situation, and solicit responses from those of you who practice treatment free beekeeping regarding what you would do.

    the hypothetical is this:

    you are a beekeeper with 10 hives, have a neighbor a half mile away who is a beekeeper with 6 hives, and you have had feral bees in your vicinity for many years.

    upon inspection, you find what looks like afb. you send a sample for analysis, and it comes back positive.

    what would you do?
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: american foul brood

    How bad is it? Is it a couple cells or is it really bad?
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    jackson county, alabama, usa
    Posts
    4,531

    Default Re: american foul brood

    let's assume multiple cells on more than one frame
    journaling the growth of a treatment free apiary started in 2010. 20+/- hives

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,093

    Default Re: american foul brood

    If you don't burn it it will burn you.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Washington County, Maine
    Posts
    2,875

    Default Re: american foul brood

    I would destroy the AFB colony and hive by burning, be super vigilant with my remaining bees, and give my neighbor a heads up that one of my hives had developed AFB and that it had been destroyed per regulations. I presume AL has a regulation that AFB hives be destroyed by burning.
    Master Beekeeper (EAS) and Master Gardener (U Maine CE) www.beeberrywoods.com

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Denver, Colorado
    Posts
    5,079

    Default Re: american foul brood

    Here's some trivia for you. Dee Lusby would remove a frame with more than 6 cells and burn it. Anything less than that would be left for the bees to clean up. Randy Oliver (I think it was) also mentioned that in the 80's, he developed an AFB-proof strain. He said that he would give them whole frames of AFB infected cells and they would clean it right out in a couple days.

    Personally, I would burn it. I would bag the hive which would suffocate the bees, then move it somewhere and burn it. Or maybe I would burn it on the stand so any debris on the ground would also be burned. I would also sterilize my equipment.

    It is a painful thing to do because all that stuff costs money. Mine cost more because I keep bigger hives. Very few double deeps at any given time here. I wish there was a program where one would pay a couple of bucks per year per hive and receive a disbursement if a hive needed to be burned. Alas, arguments about big government belong in Tailgater. It would be like farm insurance.

    All bees are somewhat resistant to AFB, or they would all have it. AFB spores are found in most hives. A real mess is what happened in northern Africa a while back when queens from France were imported bringing AFB with them. There you would see entire frames of AFB cells and hives completely destroyed by it.
    Solomon Parker, Parker Farms, ParkerFarms.biz
    11 Years Treatment-Free, ~25 Colony Baseline

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Laurel Hill, Florida, USA
    Posts
    258

    Default Re: american foul brood

    They can handle some but the hives have to be super strong. I'd watch it closely and burn if it gets much worse. Make darn sure it doesnt get robbed out. In my opinion feral hives have more resistance to afb. Ive never lost a strong hive to either afb or efb. All my hives have come from feral stock. Actually ive never even seen afb in my hives and ive been keeping bees for about 8 years.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,093

    Default Re: american foul brood

    Well dfortune, I have a three story hive w/ brood in every deep box and scads of bees, a very strong colony. This hive has AFB in every box and in every comb w/ brood in it. It's destined for thge burn barrel.

    Let's not forget now, this is a hypothetical case which the OPer is asking about.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Laurel Hill, Florida, USA
    Posts
    258

    Default Re: american foul brood

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    Well dfortune, I have a three story hive w/ brood in every deep box and scads of bees, a very strong colony. This hive has AFB in every box and in every comb w/ brood in it. It's destined for thge burn barrel.

    Let's not forget now, this is a hypothetical case which the OPer is asking about.
    I think you will find with bees that everything is influenced by genetics. Thats why i told him to keep a close i on them. Some of the old timers would go through all their hives before the inspector came and hide their afb infected colonies if they only had a few cells infected. Not that im recommending this. Its probably better to just burn it though rather than risk infecting the entire yard.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,093

    Default Re: american foul brood

    Hypothetically.
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Alachua County, FL, USA
    Posts
    6,926

    Default Re: american foul brood

    There is a lot to consider. If your neighbor finds out you have an infected hive they could claim they already lost 6 hives to your negligence. If there are AFB laws in AL, which there are, you could be criminally charged, fined, and assessed for collateral damages. If you really had AFB that hive and others will die soon. Antibiotic treatment only postpones the inevitable with AFB.
    americasbeekeeper.com
    beekeeper@americasbeekeeper.com

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