I confess i am a murderer

**seamuswildflower** · 09-23-2012, 07:25 PM

today i opened up the hive with one of my favorite queens, a michael palmer descendent. i look through the hive lots of fresh laid eggs wall to wall brood but i can not find the queen and she is marked. then to my horror i find her squashed between 2 frames. then i am thinking why no queen cells? i am still overcome with grief then it dawns on me 2 queens so i start carefully looking for a second queen. then i see a bee acting like a queen with shiny back like a queen so i marked her then later i am still looking for a queen and i see the marked bee and i notice another bee with a shiny black back looking in cells. does anyone out there know what a laying worker looks like? does the shiny back come from brushing against the cell walls? any help would be great! jim

**johnth78** · 09-24-2012, 06:15 AM

The Common Law of crimes distinguished two types of accidental killings: (1) accidental killings resulting from unlawful acts of violence not directed at the victim were punishable as Manslaughter (killings resulting from unlawful acts directed at the victim were punishable as murder); and (2) accidental killings resulting from lawful acts of violence were excusable as homicide by misadventure.

So definatly sounds like the second case homicide by misadventure. I think you are in the clear leagally however I think you need to attend some greif counseling to deal with the guilt.

**AramF** · 09-24-2012, 12:52 PM

Shiny bees are old robber bees, that've lost their "hairs" in the battle. At the very least, if you had supercedure, you'd find hatched queen cells. I'd suggest looking for relative agression now. If this hive is more agressive than the rest, you probably have laying workers. Multiple eggs per cell, abandoned cells with eggs and drone brood are all indicator of laying workers. If you still have some capped brood, just combine with another hive. It is too late to do anything else at this point. The drones are gone.

**LONNIE54** · 09-25-2012, 11:13 PM

Many of us have offed a queen now and then. What you need to know is that it is not to late to raise a new one. In your area I am sure you have plenty of drones unlike the northern latitudes just add a frame of brood every week for the next three weeks and at some point you should get queen cells and if you have a queen you will not hurt any thing so you cant louse.
When did you last see the queen alive? It has always taken my bees at least two to three weeks sometimes more to begin to have drne layers.

**Seymore** · 09-26-2012, 05:13 AM

LOL, John.

I'm in the premeditated manslaughter group. Can I attend your meetings, though, Jim? Had a hive with laying Queen but tons of drone (maybe because it was a foundationless frame???; the cells were certainly huge). Winter coming...squish, squish. Man they were Well Fed! Big ol' dudes! Does being regretfull instill any leniency?

**Intheswamp** · 09-26-2012, 06:36 AM

Originally Posted by AramF

<snip>The drones are gone.

I'm a bit further south than South Carolina but I did a removal last Wednesday (a week ago) and there were plenty of drones and drone brood...and plenty of worker brood.

Ed

**seamuswildflower** · 09-30-2012, 01:35 PM

well i opened up that hive again today and lo and behold 6 capped queen cells! 2 are too close to cut apart so i will leave them and cut out the others. i should end up with at least 2 or 3 good queens even this late in the season. so my homicide by misadventure will end up to my advantage! that is the story of my life turning a sows ear into a silk purse

**Mr.Beeman** · 09-30-2012, 01:46 PM

If it's any consolation, here in MI I still have drones. My queens are supposed to hatch tomorrow and mate by the end of next week. Keeping my fingers crossed for continued warm weather for at least a week.

**seamuswildflower** · 09-30-2012, 05:58 PM

that's not cool i hope pun intended

**seamuswildflower** · 09-30-2012, 06:01 PM

I still have drones aplenty Beeman want me to ship? How about 50 good ole southern boys. they are very smooth with the ladies?

**seamuswildflower** · 10-12-2012, 12:15 AM

i opened up 2 hives where i crushed queens, yes now it is a double homicide! well i found both queens and marked both! going through both hives i saw plenty of eggs in both and larvae a few days old, great genetics Michael Palmer! one was a split in late August! that one will need feed all winter. i went from 5 hives this spring to around 15 now 2 are russel queens which do not perform nearly as well as the Palmer queens. i just can not believe i got 2 for 2 queens this late in the season. i have one more split which should have a queen by now. i will check tomorrow. Seamus is my son Jim Donovan

**bevy's honeybees** · 10-12-2012, 02:34 AM

Originally Posted by AramF

Shiny bees are old robber bees, that've lost their "hairs" in the battle.

End of life cycle bees are propolis collectors, which is collected on their hairs and body. When propolis is taken off them back at the hive, hairs are pulled off in the process. I learned that at Bee College at UW Fl. I found it amazing, not one single aspect of the worker's life is wasted.
It could be robbing too, I'm sharing the part I was taught.

**Seymore** · 10-12-2012, 06:47 AM

Haven't been back in the hive with all the drone cells but I was in my nuc and saw 2 drones. Maybe they are better meteorologists than we realize. 80s here the rest of the week.