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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tsawwassen, BC, Canada
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    257

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Thanks Graham, that was awesome!! BTW you can make your own foundation from your own clean wax using a press/roller I think. Never checked it out but should!

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,462

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Quote Originally Posted by brooksbeefarm View Post
    Not to be argumentative, but...
    But the air you breath in Chicago, Barry, is worse for you than any minute amount of contamination in the comb honey you eat.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,509

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Maybe. I can't control the air I breath and I'm not selling it to someone else. The wax I put in my hive, however, I do have control over. I haven't used commercial wax for at least 10 years now. I can't control what the bees bring into the hive either. Perhaps there is no real significance here, but I would like to be more informed based on data. I'm going to contact Maryann Frazier and see if she has any input on this issue.
    Regards, Barry

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada
    Posts
    1,976

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Maybe...I would like to be more informed based on data. I'm going to contact Maryann Frazier and see if she has any input on this issue.
    Please do.

    I like Mike Palmer's, "splash-of-icewater" countering of a lot of the popular philosophies, but the lack of universally conclusive evidence for either side make it all suspect. Maybe that's Mike's secret - don't believe what you can't see for yourself.

    Anyone's got to admit, he's awfully successful for doing so many things "wrong"...

    I really value your participation here, Mike. There's always a potential for "groupthink", and we need the different perspectives - particularly the ones backed up be many years of hard-earned experience - to make the most useful collective in a forum like this.

    Adam

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,462

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    Maybe. I can't control the air I breath and I'm not selling it to someone else. The wax I put in my hive, however, I do have control over. I haven't used commercial wax for at least 10 years now. I can't control what the bees bring into the hive either. Perhaps there is no real significance here, but I would like to be more informed based on data. I'm going to contact Maryann Frazier and see if she has any input on this issue.

    Okay, fair enough. But, the honey you take out of your hive has pesticides and industrial chemicals and fallout from acid rain in it, and you're selling that to your customers.

    So let's get real here...

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,509

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    I agree, except you're also taking the wax out. Remember, it's the wax I'm concerned about, not so much the honey.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fair Grove,MO,USA
    Posts
    1,665

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Should we be concerned about the chemicals it takes to make the plastic and glass containers(and lids) that we sell or give our honey away in ??? The bees can answer this for you,put 5 frames of wax coated plastic foundation and 5 frames of wax foundation in the same super and see which one gets drawn out first.Has anyone had their natural drawn comb analyzed and compared to comb drawn from foundation in the same hive? Jack

  8. #48
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Sacramento, CA, USA
    Posts
    2,924

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    You can do studies but honestly, they would probably never correlate unless you did it in a controlled fashion which makes the study meaningless to me. So many different variables contribute to pesticide build up or lack of build up the only true value with any meaning would be doing analysis of the wax used to make foundation and printing the results out as it's packaged up. Personally I'm leaning towards having my bees draw out supers every year as people want wax as well and therefore I will have honey in new comb to extract except I will use whatever foundation I can buy so maybe it's meaningless anyways.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tsawwassen, BC, Canada
    Posts
    257

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    I think we are all in that position where we can only do our best, but there is so much environmental degradation out there, our best is ALL we can do. I applaud Mike's drive for purity: the bees can use the beekeeper's help in returning to a more pure state.

    I am trying to find a clean local beeyard or two, ones where the hives will not be too subject to pesticide spraying, which is ubiquitous in the agricultural land all around us. It is a tough search. The blueberry growers need the bees, but how to protect the bees from the frequent spraying in the fields?

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Fair Grove,MO,USA
    Posts
    1,665

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    That's the point i'm trying to make, whith the world we live in today where most everything has a contaminant of some kind. This discussion on natural drawn comb Vs comb drawn from starter foundation is alot like,--- Which came first the chicken or the egg. Jack

  11. #51
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Knox Co, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    857

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Part of the "problem" we face today is our ability to detect compounds has exceeded our ability to understand the impact of the results. Ideally, there would be no contaminants in anything we eat. That is not the world we live in.

    Another part of the problem is our food safety and availability has improved dramatically over the past century. Where we use to worry about the food we eat killing us "quickly," we now need to worry about the long term effects of what we eat.

    "We" need to do the best we can to provide the safest honey, food, we can. We each may make different decisions in how we choose to produce our products we market.

    Tom

  12. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Clackamas Oregon
    Posts
    756

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Read the label on half of what we feed our kids for lunch (we did this when we found our grated cheese was cheese food pretty unusual names). Very little of that was meant for human consumption but like Twall said it kills slowly so it is ok. So if our diet includes chemicals that are intended to be in there they are not ‘contaminated’.
    “Why do we fall, sir? So that we might learn to pick ourselves up” Alfred Pennyworth Batman Begins (2005)

  13. #53
    Join Date
    Dec 1999
    Location
    DuPage County, Illinois USA
    Posts
    9,509

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    I emailed Maryann Frazier but she never replied.
    Regards, Barry

  14. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,451

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I emailed Maryann Frazier but she never replied.
    Interesting, I had the same experience. I wanted to send her some honey samples for testing. No reply.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  15. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Fort Worth, TX, USA
    Posts
    1,778

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    I'm getting 2 foundationless frames in each deep an each super - puts me at about 10 FL total for the year right now. I think cut comb honey might be doable next year. For this year, it would be cut comb sugar water - my bees came too late for the flow, unfortunately
    Time to be a gypsy again, 2014 will be my prep year, my bees want a better area with actual rainfall.

  16. #56
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,462

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I emailed Maryann Frazier but she never replied.
    Jim Frazier is battling a cancer. I hear he's improving, but Maryann might just be a bit pre-occupied.

  17. #57
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    St. Albans, Vermont
    Posts
    5,462

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Quote Originally Posted by Barry View Post
    I emailed Maryann Frazier but she never replied.
    I called Dadant, where I buy my foundation. Their foundation is checked periodically, for contamination. This fellow wouldn't give me anything like the print-out I requested. Gabe Dadant might, and I'm trying. If I get it I'll post it here.

    But, he did say contamination has to be below gov't guidelines or they can't sell it. Same with everything else you eat, organic or not.

  18. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Santa Monica, CA, USA
    Posts
    1,515

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Palmer View Post
    ... contamination has to be below gov't guidelines or they can't sell it. Same with everything else you eat, organic or not.
    Sure, the problem is that "guidelines" ether did not exist or so "liberal" (towards big companies) that does not make any sense. For instance, the nitrites, who cause brain damage in children are not regulated in US. It is heavily regulated in other places... I do not think that chemical contamination of the wax is regulated at all. So, Dadant is safe... as well as others who is selling reclaimed wax in honey comb for food. sergey

  19. #59
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    27,596

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    So minimal use of foundation in the production of comb honey OR no starter strip at all will minimize exposure. It won't eliminate it, but itr will minimize it. The only real way to eliminate chemical residue consumption/exposure is to not produce comb honey at all. Produce only liquid honey.

    But, what do you do w/ the customer who wants comb honey? How do you handle that? What do you suggest?
    Mark Berninghausen #youmatter

  20. #60
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,451

    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    If anyone out there has any other suggestions where beeswax could be tested for contaminants please post.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

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