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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Since this thread has morphed from comb honey to contaminated foundation the issue of poor quality queens from packaged bees has been linked to contaminated comb in some studies. And no I won't list sources but you can check back issues of the 2 popular bee journals I think Randy Oliver has talked about this.
    Im really not that serious

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Thanks for the info on foundation getting tested. I assumed thin foundation for cut comb had some requirements but you never know I guess. It still boils down to how contaminated nectar etc.. is the bees are foraging on. You can start out with the cleanest comb possible and it doesn't amount to squat if your bees are foraging chemically laced sources.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    We had a huge discussion on reclaimed wax contamination in another thread a few month ago. To save time,everyone could search for that thread. It was huge! The bottom line is that beekeepers and their treatment practices are the major source of bee-wax contamination. Recycling wax, contamination is accumulated. Sergey

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    So minimal use of foundation in the production of comb honey OR no starter strip at all will minimize exposure.
    OR move bees in Switzerland in alpine meadows, where no pesticides etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    It won't eliminate it, but itr will minimize it.
    I think, it is good idea - to minimize the contamination.
    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    The only real way to eliminate chemical residue consumption/exposure is to not produce comb honey at all. Produce only liquid honey.
    I do not think so because you still use treatments, etc. You could not claim that your product is contamination free.

    But, what do you do w/ the customer who wants comb honey? How do you handle that? What do you suggest?
    If demand is strong, it will force you guys to produce what people demanded. This is how market economy suppose to work. Meantime, supporting local small scale treatment-free beekeeping is very important to develop a new disease resistant honey-bees lines and supply customers with local high-quality products they needed. Sergey
    Last edited by cerezha; 09-21-2012 at 10:11 PM. Reason: added in italic

  5. #65
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    OR move bees in Switzerland in alpine meadows, where no pesticides etc.

    You forgot the winking smily face. There is nowhere where you can go and not find pesticides. Even on Mt. Everest.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  6. #66
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Mr. Lyon, what chemicals are you looking yo test for? I have worked with a lab in Mass. that might be able to help.


    Crazy Roland

  7. #67
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    You forgot the winking smily face. There is nowhere where you can go and not find pesticides. Even on Mt. Everest.
    Yes, I could not manage those smiling faces - for some reason, I could not insert them into the text - they jumped to the header... -ooops, now it is inserted! As for pesticides, who knows. I am optimistic. Europe is very careful regarding any pollution. You could not find in Europe something like our Central Valley where just smell chemicals... and nothing but ruined land... If you put Mt. Everest in the Central Valley - I am sure it would be impregnated with chemicals... China and India are horrible in regard to pollution. I saw "organic raw honey" in Trader Joe's another day -made in India!

    One more thought. Nature has amusing capacity to clean/restore itself. In Soviet Union, we had horrible pollution in the Oka-river. It used to be the river with cleanest water (before USSR). They catch here sturgeon for royal 's table in old days. In USSR - we did not need sturgeon for royal family, since royal family was killed... They build a gigantic factories on the banks of the river and used the river as sewage. During the "perestroika" time when all industry went down and factories were closed, Oka-river cleaned itself within 5 years and now we have sturgeon again! So, it is amusing how nature could heal itself if we do not interfere and do not add more. Thus, even small efforts could make a huge difference! Sergey

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    I will wager that those sturgeon have trace elements of pesticides in them too.

    "As for pesticides, who knows."? Mary anne Frazier and Pennstate knows. She spoke at a Pollinators and Pesticides Conference at alfred State University, Alfred, NY two years ago and told those there about establishing package bees in hives w/out foundation. Taking samples of comb, since that is where pesticide residue shows up the most, being oil based chemicals they bond w/ oils like beeswax, what was found was chemicals which came in from the environment from as far away as 5 miles away or more.

    "Sounds like our environment is generally polluted.", I said. "Yes", she said." There is literally no where you can go and not find pesticides. Primarily from Agriculture and Lawn Maintainence sources. And what beekeepers put into their hives themselves."

    Her study even found miticides such as fluvalinate (aka Apistan) which they had not used and isn't really used for much of anything other than Mite control. So where did that come from? May have come w/ the bees themselves.

    We may already have them, but we need standards of acceptable levels of pesticide residues in honey and bees wax.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  9. #69
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    That sturgeon, Mark, would have heavy metals contamination primarily, because pollution originally comes mostly from industry (electronic production). But, the trick was that sturgeon is a natural indicator for pollution - it did not live in even slightly contaminated waters. The appearance of sturgeon in the river is an indication that waters in fact are very clean. Sturgeon is more sensitive than all our mass-spectrometers together! Similarly - wild trout. It is living only in literally distilled water from puriest mountain glaciers. If you could find trout in the Mt. Everest high mountain creeks - than, you are not right and area is clean (water at least). I would imagine, there are other living indicators of contamination. Actually, bees were considered to be a living indicator. I afraid, not anymore - they were breed (unintentionally I guess) to sustain pollution (treatment, pesticides etc). Wild, native bees - perhaps, still indicators. Some plants - also indicators. I used to know quite well "russian" indicators. I am not familiar with Americans... I know that tiger lily in CA is very sensitive to pollution, thus - nearly disappeared from the nature... But again, the idea that everything is polluted (I basically agree with this) is counterproductive since open doors for hopeless approach:"everything polluted, why bother? Other pollute, I could pollute too!". I completely disagree with such approach. It is everyone's responsibility to minimize pollution in all ways and do not wait until somebody (magically) would clean up for you. The best approach - "do not pollute, than you don't need to clean up"... Sergey

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    The first step to being able to address ones problems is to recognize the existence of the problem.

    Do you eat the sturgeon?
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  11. #71
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    The first step to being able to address ones problems is to recognize the existence of the problem. Do you eat the sturgeon?
    Agree, but pollution problem do exists in US for at least 50 years. I feel, it was plenty of time to understand that pollution is bad. Pesticide problem become very pronounced with invention of DDT and "orange agent" (not exactly pesticide, but pollutant) and now we are still trying to "recognize" the problem...

    As for sturgeon - yes, but did not tell anybody since it is prohibited to catch it in Oka-river - it will take time to restore the population if new Russian capitalistic approach do not destroy slowly recovered eco-system AGAIN.
    Sergey

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    It takes a stronge colony to produce comb honey(enough to sell commercially) say one or two supers of beautiful snow white capped comb honey. Maybe i'm wrong, but with all the steps the bees go through to make the comb and honey (processing it through there bodies) and make enough stored honey and new brood to get them through winter. I feel alot safer eating their product, than the produce i buy from the super market.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Quote Originally Posted by brooksbeefarm View Post
    It takes a stronge colony to produce comb honey(enough to sell commercially) say one or two supers of beautiful snow white capped comb honey. Maybe i'm wrong, but with all the steps the bees go through to make the comb and honey (processing it through there bodies) and make enough stored honey and new brood to get them through winter. I feel alot safer eating their product, than the produce i buy from the super market.
    My instincts say you are correct. While we should always strive for purity in our food supply we would starve to death if we absolutely required it. Today's ultra-sensitive testing is useful only in showing us what is in our foods and not necessarily what might affect our health.
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

  14. #74
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Quote Originally Posted by cerezha View Post
    As for sturgeon - yes, but did not tell anybody since it is prohibited to catch it in Oka-river - it will take time to restore the population if new Russian capitalistic approach do not destroy slowly recovered eco-system AGAIN.
    Sergey
    So, even for you, there is an acceptable level of contamination which you are willing to consume. So what's ther problem w/ beeswax foundation?
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  15. #75
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    In defense of pesticides (if used correctly,read the lable) they have probably saved more lives than they have taken. I say this because by using them we can produce more food for the world, and the resent outbreak of malaria in Africa, where they used DDT to kill the mosquito population causing the problem that was killing hundreds of people.Like it or not, pesticides are here to stay, were just going to have to learn more about them and how to use them.

  16. #76
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    That's right brooks.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  17. #77
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Quote Originally Posted by sqkcrk View Post
    So, even for you, there is an acceptable level of contamination which you are willing to consume. So what's ther problem w/ beeswax foundation?
    Mark
    You need to be more respectful to my writing! I spend literally an hour to carefully master the respond on your post regarding eating the sturgeon. Your respond (above) was expected. In my previous post I stated that sturgeon is a live indicator of cleanness of environment - if I eat this, it means it was really clean. Nobody could force me to eat something suspicious! Read corresponded post(s) before replying! Sergey

  18. #78
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Oh, sorry, I see. You said the return indicated the cleanliness of the waters which it is found in. Okay.
    Mark Berninghausen
    Squeak Creek Apiaries



  19. #79
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    Quote Originally Posted by brooksbeefarm View Post
    using them we can produce more food for the world Like it or not, pesticides are here to stay, were just going to have to learn more about them and how to use them.
    All the money spent on pesticide, herbicide, insecticide, fungicide, miteicide research would be better spent on research on organics. We already know what the effects are from these chemicals. The world can be fed by using organic farming. Rodale has been researching organics since 1947. World starvation is not because of lack of food it’s distribution and over population problem.
    Im really not that serious

  20. #80
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    Default Re: Making "Comb Honey" Good or Bad..

    topic has gone from comb honey to pesticides. tail gator any one???
    Im really not that serious

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