Looking to buy treatment free honey

[jmgi]

I think everyone would agree the environment is contaminated, the consumer who looks for "organic" foodstuffs understands that its just the way it is and you either eat or die, but what they are looking for is food that was produced intentionally without chemical contact. Its surely not completely chemical free, but it is assumed to be better than the average product on the shelf. Honey is surely not pure, but we still use the word "pure" on our labels, because its the best we can do, and who is going to nit pick about the truthfulness of what our label says. Organic is a feel good word. John

[cerezha]

You do know that just because you didn't put any chemicals in the hive that doesn't mean there are none present. The bees bring them in from the environment.

I think Mark, it is a big difference how to present the case: one thing if one intentionally did not put anything unnatural in the beehive and another story if one is dishonest and hide the truth behind wordings that bees brought some nasty stuff in the hive (not you, bees!). To me, this two scenarios are entirely different! I would appreciate the honest disclosure that beekeeper intentionally did not treat bees with chemicals. Another scenario, which you propose (hiding information) makes mi sick! Sergey

[sqkcrk]

Who is hiding information? How big a label should I put on my jar? Should I add a book to my label to tell people exactly everything I do? When you get into selling honey, are you going to put on your label in big RED letters. "I never put any chemicals in my beehives. I have no control over what chemicals the bees bring into the hives themselves."

Consumers in general do not care. Otherwise there would be Chemical Content Labels on Carrots and Grapes.

Look, marketing is not a nasty word which means lying. Let's start with that. I don't think you understand how to market what you make. Clearly Bare Honey does. "Beyond Organic". Now that's a claim which would appeal to a consumer who thinks they are smart and discerning, who simply want someone to tell them what they want to hear so they don't have to delve deeper into how some honey was produced.

If any of my customers (I know you weren't going after me, personally) asked me I would tell them what they want to know. So far my customers want to know if there is honey in the jar. By simply labeling the jars HONEY, am I lying by omission?

[Solomon Parker]

Interestingly enough, conventional beekeepers often claim that it doesn't matter because customers don't care.

Treatment free beekeepers claim that it does matter and customers do care.

My customers care, and they ask for honey year 'round and for years after I've ran out (in the case of bad non-harvesting years). That's just my experience. It's worth explaining to them why.

I was recently told that someone in this area keeps five gallon HFCS feeders on constantly.

[sqkcrk]

Interestingly enough, conventional beekeepers often claim that it doesn't matter because customers don't care.

Interestingly enough, conventional automobile companys ....
Interestingly enough, conventional manufacturers of almost anything you can name ...

Consumers do care, up to a point. Once the consumer has their mind made up any additional information is no longer useful or pertinent.

[cg3]

"Beyond Organic", while a nebulous claim, conjures up an impression that their product is cleaner than even an organic farmer could produce. It just strikes me as a cynical ploy to take advantage of the consumer's ignorance.

[jim lyon]

Interestingly enough the implied notion that only honey sold under someone's arbitrary definition of treatment free is in fact better than someone else's is uninformed at best and at worst dishonest. Making insinuations without any evidence does our industry a great disservice. What is the point of some murky story about someone, somewhere who allegedly keeps syrup on his bees constantly. if I did that my honey would be rejected by buyers who actually do test my honey for lots and lots of things.

[Barry]

Hey Jim, do you produce comb honey? If so, has it ever been tested? I know this is a bit off the OP, but I'd like to get some real data regarding chems in wax foundation, especially foundation for comb honey. I'd do some comb honey again if I felt the wax was in fact 'clean'.

[sqkcrk]

I was recently told that someone in this area keeps five gallon HFCS feeders on constantly.

Told by whom?
How did they know?
How did they know that there was HFCS in the feeders? Maybe on the hives is a good place to store the feeders. I have feeders in my hives all year round. That doesn't mean they are full of syrup all year round.

What makes you think your source is true and accurate?

[sqkcrk]

Hey Jim, do you produce comb honey? If so, has it ever been tested? I know this is a bit off the OP, but I'd like to get some real data regarding chems in wax foundation, especially foundation for comb honey.

Dr. Maryanne Frazier might be able to answer your question for you. I imagine her reports on the composition of wax in beehives w/out foundation would have an answer for you. She is from Penn State. I'm sure you or someone coulkd link us to her published papers.

[Solomon Parker]

if I did that my honey would be rejected by buyers who actually do test my honey for lots and lots of things.

So I imagine you don't do it.

Told by whom?

Jesse

How did they know?

The guy told him.

How did they know that there was HFCS in the feeders?

The guy told him.

What makes you think your source is true and accurate?

Well, he was standing there telling me to my face.
What makes you think he isn't? It seems to me I have far more evidence to work from than you. It seems your criticism is based purely on speculation about something you heard third hand.

[jim lyon]

Hey Jim, do you produce comb honey? If so, has it ever been tested? I know this is a bit off the OP, but I'd like to get some real data regarding chems in wax foundation, especially foundation for comb honey. I'd do some comb honey again if I felt the wax was in fact 'clean'.

No I don't. Yeah I would love to see some of that data as well particularly since there is the perception by many that comb honey is the purest of all honey products. I can say that no residues (that means 0 ppb) of any mite treatment chemicals have shown up in my recent honey tests. We haven't used any such hard chemicals in about seven years. Mark has a good suggestion there.

[sqkcrk]

What makes you think he isn't? It seems to me I have far more evidence to work from than you. It seems your criticism is based purely on speculation about something you heard third hand.

Did I say he wasn't? Remind me. I asked questions. I didn't make statements about anyone elses specific cercumstances. If you find questions asked as criticism I don't know what to say.

Testimony is evidence? You know better than that. I probably wouyld have believed your friend Jesse too, if I knew him and his relation to the beekeeper.

[cerezha]

... By simply labeling the jars HONEY, am I lying by omission?

Mark, I do not know if not disclosing known information, which potentially may be beneficial to people is considered to be a lie? probably not (in US) since corporations do it all time. But it sounds not right to me. It's like doctor who do find a problem in your body and did not tell you because you did not ask... I think, it is in the area of decency... everyone decided for him/herself... I did not mean you personally, I am speaking in general and as you know - I do like your label! But,see, there is the trend - people are more and more aware of presence of bad chemicals/etc in the product. It creates a pressure to the manufacturer to disclose what is in the product. For instance in milk industry, now, many companies disclose that they do not use growth hormone, similarly, many disclose if they use corn syrup... If company disclose some useful information, why it is bad? I think, trend would be, that customers would like to know more details about the content of the products they consume. Smart companies, who noticed the trend and adjusted in time would benefit from it. Example - "organic" food - people agree to pay twice for "organic" carrot! Similarly,I am sure,there are bunch of people who would be happy to pay premium price for trusted "treatment-free" honey. Sergey

[Haraga]

I have some treatment free honey. How much do you want to pay per pound?

[tMcf]

Do you produce more treatment free honey than you can sell? If so, we are looking to buy barrels. Please send a message if you are interested in selling?

BareHoney, Tim McFarline of McFarline Apiaries here. I use no treatments on my bees. However I bottled all my honey as it is raw and has crystalized. I have 25lb buckets, 3lb jars and 1lb jars. My phone # is 802 558 5382. I live in Vermont/ I sell my honey to stores at $5 / lb