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What type of bee hive is best for the home bee keeper

74K views 130 replies 35 participants last post by  kilocharlie 
#1 ·
Hello all I am considering taking on some bees this spring and would like to know what people think is the best type of hive. I mean if money were no object, and the health and safety of the bees was the top priority.

I am not saying I want to pay a ton of cash, but I am ok with buying something, or making somehting that is high quality since I only plan on have 1-2 bee hives total on my property. Once I have those boxes if I want to build more I have the design right there to copy :D

Thanks for you opinions.

It would be very helpful to point out the positives/negatives of the frames vs. bar top designs. I plan to be a bee keeper primarily for pollination, but also know I will get into extracting some honey and wax as it is available and doesn't hurt the hive.

Thanks!!
 
#2 ·
For bee health, IMHO if the hive isn't hindering their activity or trapping moisture, a "better" hive does not exist. After that I feel it's location and managing them within your lifestyle, but without over management.

For me the choice of hive is about time and money. If you don't want to build it, standard commercial grade gear shows up at the front door. If you want minimal investment, top bar hives have much to offer. With money and time, you're only limited by imagination.

I started and now stay with Langstroth hives, tried top bars, but failed.

I suggest staying away from beginner's kits. My smoker and hive tool are the only things remaining from mine.
 
#14 ·
I suggest staying away from beginner's kits. My smoker and hive tool are the only things remaining from mine.
Along these lines are there any tips you have on good equipment. I should have included that in my post. I am starting from zero, but prefer to buy things once that work well, or I end up re-engineering them anyway.


sqkcrk - I should have said that I am in my 30's and would consider myself a strong lad. I probably should have pointed that out since the lifting aspect of the hive does come into play.
 
#4 ·
The Warre hive folks claim to best approximate the native habitat of bees, namely tree cavities. They are a bit top-heavy but modular and the number of boxes can be adjusted to the size of your colony. With some modification you can stack Warre boxes on top of a Langstroth box to start from a nuc.
http://www.beethinking.com/warre-hives

Top bar hives are probably the easiest to build but are not modular, meaning that you can't add space for more honey or to alleviate swarming, and also that it is very hard to lift/move the hive when filled with honey. Small colonies in top bar hives will have more space than they can take care of, potentially leading to problems with wax moths, mice, etc.

Langstroth hives are easiest to manipulate. If you don't plan to inspect often this may not be as important to you. They are also the only design that allows you to extract honey without destroying the comb. This results in somewhat higher yields as bees don't need to draw comb each year.

I have Langstroth hives and like them, though I might experiment with the Warre design sometime. I second Westernbeekeeper's suggestion to have all your boxes the same size. As I got secondhand equipment from several sources, I now have deeps, semi-deeps, and mediums. Kind of a pain if I want to move frames of honey and brood around.

Mark
 
#5 ·
Beelosopher,

I would also suggest that you use all 8-frame mediums.

If you want to be an outcast at the local bee club I would have suggestions to help with that as well... For your broodnests, you could use the new narrow frames that will be offered for sale by Walter T Kelley. They allow you to have nine frames in an eight frame box. A couple of members are cutting down Mann Lake's PF-120 small cell plastic frames and mounting the cut out pf-120 "foundation" in wooden frames. If you wish to spend a little time and $$, you might enjoy being the maverick at the bee meeting. So, I would go with all 8-frame mediums, with small cell plastic foundation mounted in Kelley's narrow frames in the brood nest, and unaltered pf-120 frames in the supers.
 
#6 ·
I'd get the standard langstroth, cause once you get a few hives you'll probably want more. Or it could be the other way around and you want to get out, so standard equipment would be easier to sell. Bee hive health depends primary on the beekeeper's management practices, as all hive types follow the same basic principles.
 
#9 ·
So just curious, why the 8 frame instead of 10 frame? I was already sorta leaning towards langstroth styled hives for many of the reasons you are all citing.

Lutera - "Langstroth hives are easiest to manipulate. If you don't plan to inspect often this may not be as important to you. They are also the only design that allows you to extract honey without destroying the comb. This results in somewhat higher yields as bees don't need to draw comb each year."

That was a huge point about the top bar and it making the comb unusable. That goes against my initial goal of taking honey as incidental. Thanks!

Since I don't know how often I will get stung, not sure how often I will be inspecting the hive haha. But I would prefer to have the modular approach. I need to find some places with good prices. Dadant is pretty close to me, so I might have to road trip it to look at some of their stuff. Tough part is that I don't know what I am buying yet :D
So hard to know waht works in the field

I really appreciate your comments and please keep them coming.
 
#11 ·
So just curious, why the 8 frame instead of 10 frame? I was already sorta leaning towards langstroth styled hives for many of the reasons you are all citing.
The 8 frame equipment is lighter.

In my experience, bees will often leave the outer most frames in 10-frame equipment untouched, and the beekeeper needs to manipulate the hive more to fill all 10 frames of each box. I experimented with two 8-frame hives this year, and the bees seemed to build up faster in the 8 frame hives, preferring to chimney up in an 8-frame box rather than spread out to 10.

Cheers,
Tony P.
 
#10 ·
This is my first year and I have all 10 frame Langstroth hives. Deeps for the brood boxes and mediums for the supers. I have learned that the budget or economy boxes are just fine. I wait for sales and buy them from Mann Lake and receive free shipping on orders over $100.
 
#13 ·
If you buy the most popular and most commonly used equipment you will be able to sell it should you find you want to. Plus, if you want to buy more equipment you will be able to find equipment which will easily match up to what you already own.

Unless you are unable to lift a super of honey weighing 45 to 60 lbs, maybe you should go w/ all mediums and for an even lighter lift eight frame equipment would be good for you. But, if you are young and realitively strong I would recommend standard size deep 10 frame supers for brood chambers and shallows supers for honey supers, all Langstroth type equipment. Unless you find that you will have to move a two story hive (two deeps) of ten frame equipment ten frame deeps are not too much to handle.
 
#15 ·
You aren't all that far from Waverly,NY are you? Take a trip down to the Dadant Outlet in Waverly. Then you can look at a wearhouse full of equipment, peruse their catalog and meet some really nice folks who have been selling beekeeping equipment and advising beekeepers, or potential beekeepers, for ages.

You also should check out eshpa.org, the website of the statewide association of beekeepers. You will find reference to our Fall Meeting, featuring Michael Bush, Tom Rinderer, and Steven Coy, plus a list of Local Clubs, so you can find a group near you to join for monthly meetings. Look it up.
 
#16 ·
Just saw where you were from. I grew up in Norwood and played Brasher Falls in soccer some years! Yeah i am about 2 or so hours from Dadant (just got their catalogue today). Have eaten my share of honey products from Brasher too!

I really want to go down, but want to make sure I know what I am looking for before I do. I also want to really get good bee equipment so I don't get frtustrated in the begining handling hte bees. I think I will be ok with it. But normally when a bee tries to sting me a nija swat them. That won't really work in this scenario haha. i.e. I want equip that let's me relax, so the bees will relax.



Just checked that link and there are no bee clubs in my county or any of the surrounding - sucks
 
#125 ·
I hated the styrofoam. ... I found them annoying.
Besides interchangeability, what did you not like about the styrofoam hive bodies? I was planning on making some this winter. Foam is cheap, 1x12 is expensive.

My take on hive sizes, I'm all 8 frame deeps and 5 frame deeps in order to vary the box but not the frame. I have found that not using standard 10 frame is like fighting city hall. I'm buying some single deeps in the spring and of course they are in 10 frame deeps.
 
#21 ·
Didnt really see it spelled out here, so in case you didnt know 8 frame equipment is not near as common as ten. Not sure that will influence your decision though. A lot of people use 9 frames in a ten frame box. I personlly would recomend doing this as there are many advantages.
 
#23 ·
Well, I'll stick my neck out. You are up in New York, where it gets COLD. You might consider a modified WBC (William Broughton Carr) hive, Langstroth dimensions on the inside. The double walls sure do keep it warmer in the winter, cooler in the summer, and drier inside. Warre hives are a pain to lift, but WBC's aren't that bad. The Lang' inside box uses standard equipment - you could use all medium equipment, 8- or 10-frame. You modify the lifts (outer, ship lapped-looking boxes) to have one inch of dead airspace clearance inside. They are truly beautiful, especially with a copper roof! If you are only running two of them, why not get fancy, and add to your bees chances of survival?

I prefer 10-frame mediums. I cut 3 vertical slots down the inside of the short ends of the boxes. The slots are 9/64" wide (a hair over 1/4") and 3/32" deep. A hive divider is made of a piece of 1/4" plywood, which is cut and sanded to fit into the slots. I can use it for 3 x 3-frame mating nucleus colonies by using 2 hive dividers, 2 x 5-frame double nucs by using only one divider in the middle slot, 7 + 3-frame breeder queen isolation with a divider in either side that has queen excluder on it, a 7-frame nuc with a 2-gallon Mann Lake frame feeder, or a 10-frame medium. That's 5 uses from any box in my apiary, and all the same size frames. They weigh about 50 lbs when full. A deep Langstroth weighs 90 lbs, an 8-frame medium weighs 40 lbs. I do make special bottom boards and inner covers for the nuc arrangements. Just suggesting an option to consider...good luck!
 
#29 ·
Advantages of 9/10 frames. More ventilation for healthier hive, the extra ventilation also helps to prevent swarming. Its easier to get the frames out than ten cause once everything gets propolized frames can get really tight. Less likely to kill queen removing frames. Also, they draw the cells out farther wich makes bigger bees in the brood chamber and easier to remove cappings in the honey supers.
 
#31 ·
wow that is a host of positives! And many of them sound good for a new bee keeper. Thanks!


Your mind must be exploding with answers. Since you pointed out money was of no concern to you, why not try several different types to see what works best for you. Go ahead and throw an observation hive in the mix also.
I would like to say money was no object haha but it of course is because I am married so the wife must approve as well ;) My point was that since I only currently own 2+ acres I only plan on taking on 1-2 hives tops. Now I do know some people with land and agriculture and probably could expand, but right now, and for the foreseeable future, I am not looking to be a sideliner, I plan to keep it small. So because of that, I would be ok with getting really good quality hive equipment, smoker, suit, veil and hives. Hives in particular, because then I will have a cheat sheet and be able to copy the design for building my next hive.

Bottom line is that we are DIY homesteader types and i have learned that if you get the right set up it frees you up from problems so you can keep up with the 80 other things you have taken on. If it doesn't work right, then I have to redesign it, which can be fun, but time consuming. You should see my all electric brewing rig... Point is sometimes it is worth paying for functionality (perhaps this isn;t the case with bee keeping and I am over thinking it :scratch:)

I also have time on my side, and a birthday and Christmas to help me sweet talk my wife into letting me buy good stuff for the spring :D
 
#36 ·
Hmmm, I have to go up and buy some of the metal frame rests for my new deeps and med. supers I got from Country Rubes, wax dipped is very nice and the Shastina Millwork boxes are good workmanship. I may convert over to the 9/10 since I do not think the end frames are built up yet in all 4 of my active deeps. I may look for one of the 9 frame spacers too.
 
#30 ·
I have been reading on this subject for a couple of months and am glad to see all of the different views. I currently have a TBH waiting for April when package bees are available from my supplier, basically I wanted to see how this works. I am going to a TBH class this Sat. I do have 3 10 frame Langs., just did a split from 1 to 3 hives with purchased mated queens (2). 8 frames I see the weight advantage and there may be a vertical space advantage that the bees like. Since the deep and medium frames fit either box you can always convert from 8-10. I might have gone with 8 frame boxes if I had decided early enough on my standard, but I guess I will stick with 10 since I now have 3 hives. 9/10 I can see how this would reduce cross comb if they decide to build fat honey comb, and I have a couple of frames that are fatter. I do not see a lot of fat brood comb, but they do cycle the combs use. I just started 2 June this year so I am a newbee and this is only my 2c worth.
All - Thanks for sharing all of the views to help us newbees.....
 
#33 ·
I might build the second hive it it makes sense. I am really leaning on langstroth and considering the 8 and 10 frame set up. Sounds like the 10 frame has some big advantages if you go 9 frames. What I am not sure about is whether to do all mediums or go with a deep for the brood and then mediums for the rest. Sounds like a lot of people like the mediums for user friendly aspects so maybe that is the way to go. That is why I really need to see the mediums vs. the deeps in person.

I love carpentry so even though the langstroth is harder to build, I think it would be a great experience.
 
#37 ·
Beelosopher, in regards to Langstroth hives the hive boxes from vendors *usually* are not much more expensive than it is to buy wood and cut your own. They also have the measurements down pretty well, the rabbet or box joints cut properly, the rabbet for the frame hangers, etc.,. The place to save money (and I know you're not too much worried about cost) is in the bottom boards and covers. Those don't need the somewhat precise cuts that the boxes require (though bee space still must be adhered to with top covers and to some degree bottom boards).

This is my first full year of keeping bees and I'm in my mid-50's with a less that pristine back. I opted for all 8-frame medium hives and they seem to be working out well. My mentor has been keeping bees for a long time, he just turned 80. When I told him that I was going with the smaller boxes he stated that if he had it to do over again he'd go with the same. Just sayin'.... :)

Best wishes, for now study, study, study. You'll figure out which direction to go in and the vehicle to take you there! ;)

Ed
 
#38 ·
How does 9 frame in a 10 provide more ventilation???????? Cells are drawn deeper so only a bee space left between adjacent frames and walls, so same as 10. And technically one less vertical slot so less ventilation. And with bees covering all frames in a super, they will control air flow anyway.

Cells are deeper but no bigger in diameter, so I doubt bees are bigger.

10 frames of brood is more brood.

9 frames of honey is more than 10 frames because of cell depth and one less foundation.

Found adding metal rails on slide slot in ends of supers keeps propolis build up down.

Presently use all 10 frame deeps and full of honey is on the heavy side.

There is advantages to using all mediums or all deeps as frames can be moved up and down. Useful to get bees up above a queen excluder and can move honey to beef up winter stores.
 
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