What type of bee hive is best for the home bee keeper

[dfortune]

Didnt really see it spelled out here, so in case you didnt know 8 frame equipment is not near as common as ten. Not sure that will influence your decision though. A lot of people use 9 frames in a ten frame box. I personlly would recomend doing this as there are many advantages.

[tsmullins]

The 8 frame equipment is lighter.

In my experience, bees will often leave the outer most frames in 10-frame equipment untouched, and the beekeeper needs to manipulate the hive more to fill all 10 frames of each box. I experimented with two 8-frame hives this year, and the bees seemed to build up faster in the 8 frame hives, preferring to chimney up in an 8-frame box rather than spread out to 10.

Cheers,
Tony P.

This has been my experience as well.

Shane

[kilocharlie]

Well, I'll stick my neck out. You are up in New York, where it gets COLD. You might consider a modified WBC (William Broughton Carr) hive, Langstroth dimensions on the inside. The double walls sure do keep it warmer in the winter, cooler in the summer, and drier inside. Warre hives are a pain to lift, but WBC's aren't that bad. The Lang' inside box uses standard equipment - you could use all medium equipment, 8- or 10-frame. You modify the lifts (outer, ship lapped-looking boxes) to have one inch of dead airspace clearance inside. They are truly beautiful, especially with a copper roof! If you are only running two of them, why not get fancy, and add to your bees chances of survival?

I prefer 10-frame mediums. I cut 3 vertical slots down the inside of the short ends of the boxes. The slots are 9/64" wide (a hair over 1/4") and 3/32" deep. A hive divider is made of a piece of 1/4" plywood, which is cut and sanded to fit into the slots. I can use it for 3 x 3-frame mating nucleus colonies by using 2 hive dividers, 2 x 5-frame double nucs by using only one divider in the middle slot, 7 + 3-frame breeder queen isolation with a divider in either side that has queen excluder on it, a 7-frame nuc with a 2-gallon Mann Lake frame feeder, or a 10-frame medium. That's 5 uses from any box in my apiary, and all the same size frames. They weigh about 50 lbs when full. A deep Langstroth weighs 90 lbs, an 8-frame medium weighs 40 lbs. I do make special bottom boards and inner covers for the nuc arrangements. Just suggesting an option to consider...good luck!

[sqkcrk]

Sorry Charlie, not necassary. Good thoughts, but a dbl walled hive isn't necassary in NY.

[dfortune]

Your mind must be exploding with answers. Since you pointed out money was of no concern to you, why not try several different types to see what works best for you. Go ahead and throw an observation hive in the mix also.

[BeeCurious]

I wouldn't choose my equipment based on how easily it might be sold...

[Beelosopher]

Both the hive equip and suits. I am starting from zero. I lived on Prospect Street (parents still live there). In fact I will be heading up there for a visit next week I think.

[Beelosopher]

Didnt really see it spelled out here, so in case you didnt know 8 frame equipment is not near as common as ten. Not sure that will influence your decision though. A lot of people use 9 frames in a ten frame box. I personlly would recomend doing this as there are many advantages.

what are some of the advantages ot hte 9/10 frame set up? I thought that the 8 frames weren't as common, so frankly I was surprised to see so many people using them.

[dfortune]

Advantages of 9/10 frames. More ventilation for healthier hive, the extra ventilation also helps to prevent swarming. Its easier to get the frames out than ten cause once everything gets propolized frames can get really tight. Less likely to kill queen removing frames. Also, they draw the cells out farther wich makes bigger bees in the brood chamber and easier to remove cappings in the honey supers.

[mmmooretx]

I have been reading on this subject for a couple of months and am glad to see all of the different views. I currently have a TBH waiting for April when package bees are available from my supplier, basically I wanted to see how this works. I am going to a TBH class this Sat. I do have 3 10 frame Langs., just did a split from 1 to 3 hives with purchased mated queens (2). 8 frames I see the weight advantage and there may be a vertical space advantage that the bees like. Since the deep and medium frames fit either box you can always convert from 8-10. I might have gone with 8 frame boxes if I had decided early enough on my standard, but I guess I will stick with 10 since I now have 3 hives. 9/10 I can see how this would reduce cross comb if they decide to build fat honey comb, and I have a couple of frames that are fatter. I do not see a lot of fat brood comb, but they do cycle the combs use. I just started 2 June this year so I am a newbee and this is only my 2c worth.
All - Thanks for sharing all of the views to help us newbees.....

[Beelosopher]

Advantages of 9/10 frames. More ventilation for healthier hive, the extra ventilation also helps to prevent swarming. Its easier to get the frames out than ten cause once everything gets propolized frames can get really tight. Less likely to kill queen removing frames. Also, they draw the cells out farther wich makes bigger bees in the brood chamber and easier to remove cappings in the honey supers.

wow that is a host of positives! And many of them sound good for a new bee keeper. Thanks!

Your mind must be exploding with answers. Since you pointed out money was of no concern to you, why not try several different types to see what works best for you. Go ahead and throw an observation hive in the mix also.

I would like to say money was no object haha but it of course is because I am married so the wife must approve as well My point was that since I only currently own 2+ acres I only plan on taking on 1-2 hives tops. Now I do know some people with land and agriculture and probably could expand, but right now, and for the foreseeable future, I am not looking to be a sideliner, I plan to keep it small. So because of that, I would be ok with getting really good quality hive equipment, smoker, suit, veil and hives. Hives in particular, because then I will have a cheat sheet and be able to copy the design for building my next hive.

Bottom line is that we are DIY homesteader types and i have learned that if you get the right set up it frees you up from problems so you can keep up with the 80 other things you have taken on. If it doesn't work right, then I have to redesign it, which can be fun, but time consuming. You should see my all electric brewing rig... Point is sometimes it is worth paying for functionality (perhaps this isn;t the case with bee keeping and I am over thinking it )

I also have time on my side, and a birthday and Christmas to help me sweet talk my wife into letting me buy good stuff for the spring

[sqkcrk]

Well then, if you are going to build it yourself, and I never thought I would ever say this, maybe a Top Bar Hive is the way to go.

[Beelosopher]

Well then, if you are going to build it yourself, and I never thought I would ever say this, maybe a Top Bar Hive is the way to go.

I might build the second hive it it makes sense. I am really leaning on langstroth and considering the 8 and 10 frame set up. Sounds like the 10 frame has some big advantages if you go 9 frames. What I am not sure about is whether to do all mediums or go with a deep for the brood and then mediums for the rest. Sounds like a lot of people like the mediums for user friendly aspects so maybe that is the way to go. That is why I really need to see the mediums vs. the deeps in person.

I love carpentry so even though the langstroth is harder to build, I think it would be a great experience.

[sqkcrk]

As you will when you come by. There is a lot to learn and experience. You don't have to make any hards and fast choices until you are ready to spend time and money planning on moving forward.

[dfortune]

" What I am not sure about is whether to do all mediums or go with a deep for the brood and then mediums for the rest "

I personally use all deeps. This is a matter of personal preference. But having different sized equipment on the same hive can be very frustrating.

[mmmooretx]

Advantages of 9/10 frames. More ventilation for healthier hive, the extra ventilation also helps to prevent swarming. Its easier to get the frames out than ten cause once everything gets propolized frames can get really tight. Less likely to kill queen removing frames. Also, they draw the cells out farther wich makes bigger bees in the brood chamber and easier to remove cappings in the honey supers.

Hmmm, I have to go up and buy some of the metal frame rests for my new deeps and med. supers I got from Country Rubes, wax dipped is very nice and the Shastina Millwork boxes are good workmanship. I may convert over to the 9/10 since I do not think the end frames are built up yet in all 4 of my active deeps. I may look for one of the 9 frame spacers too.

[Intheswamp]

Beelosopher, in regards to Langstroth hives the hive boxes from vendors *usually* are not much more expensive than it is to buy wood and cut your own. They also have the measurements down pretty well, the rabbet or box joints cut properly, the rabbet for the frame hangers, etc.,. The place to save money (and I know you're not too much worried about cost) is in the bottom boards and covers. Those don't need the somewhat precise cuts that the boxes require (though bee space still must be adhered to with top covers and to some degree bottom boards).

This is my first full year of keeping bees and I'm in my mid-50's with a less that pristine back. I opted for all 8-frame medium hives and they seem to be working out well. My mentor has been keeping bees for a long time, he just turned 80. When I told him that I was going with the smaller boxes he stated that if he had it to do over again he'd go with the same. Just sayin'....

Best wishes, for now study, study, study. You'll figure out which direction to go in and the vehicle to take you there!

Ed

[mgolden]

How does 9 frame in a 10 provide more ventilation???????? Cells are drawn deeper so only a bee space left between adjacent frames and walls, so same as 10. And technically one less vertical slot so less ventilation. And with bees covering all frames in a super, they will control air flow anyway.

Cells are deeper but no bigger in diameter, so I doubt bees are bigger.

10 frames of brood is more brood.

9 frames of honey is more than 10 frames because of cell depth and one less foundation.

Found adding metal rails on slide slot in ends of supers keeps propolis build up down.

Presently use all 10 frame deeps and full of honey is on the heavy side.

There is advantages to using all mediums or all deeps as frames can be moved up and down. Useful to get bees up above a queen excluder and can move honey to beef up winter stores.

[Beelosopher]

Another thing popped into my head. I am planning to go treatment free. Does either hive design beat the other for this? Any personal experience with this?

[BeeCurious]

Another thing popped into my head. I am planning to go treatment free. Does either hive design beat the other for this? Any personal experience with this?

Yes, from my previous post... small cell with narrow frames in eight frame boxes. You will have nine frames in the brood nest boxes.

You might want to do some reading on Michael Bush's website.