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How to keep Queen alive ahead of hiving...

19K views 40 replies 9 participants last post by  kilocharlie 
#1 ·
Noob question: I have a laying worker colony that needs requeening (posting about that as well) and may have to pick up the queen on the day I shake out the hive. I have been told to let the bees find their way back to the original hive once they are shaken out, but to give them two days before introducing their new queen (which I expect to do very carefully, cage etc.).

But what is the best method for keeping the new queen and her attendants alive and well during those two days? I have a nice warm laundry/furnace room to keep them in, btw.

Thanks for the help,
Janet
 
#29 · (Edited)
They are fanning the hive in hot weather, throwing Nasanov gland scent while they are at it...why not? Temperature control is the priority, though.

Out in the Mojave desert, the bees were on Mesquite so thick we thought it was a car coming, then I was sure it was a swarm. They were just feeding on their main and favorite nectar flow. As the thermometer reached 101, the bees disappeared for several hours to go fan the hive. When it cooled back down in the evening, they were back on that nectar flow like Christmas shoppers on a mall.

Western Wilson - I would make every effort to make a quick and dirty Laidlaw cage - it doesn't have to be perfect - and re-queen that colony for winter ASAP! They deserve a chance, and kill all the drones and drone brood NOW to save honey for the girls. Take empty comb and spray water-thinned honey into the cells if you have to. Frame feeder, Miller feeder, or 5-quart pail on a holey board - all inside the hive feeders - work best. Also give them a hard fondant inner cover. When a hive has laying workers for a long time, they are usually out of food, or severely depleted. Heck, feed them a pollen patty, too.
 
#30 ·
I am going through the hive tomorrow with the local Master Beekeeper to assess queen status. Interestingly, the hive is well provisioned as even with all the weird missing queen situations I had, the hive is HUGE and the workers kept putting up honey and pollen. To the point where, since no brood was being laid, they were filling every cell with nectar. I had to open up the (potential!) brood nest area, which I did during the shakeout and requeening by putting in empty frames, some drawn. I have put on syrup and pollen as the weather is turning and I felt if the queen has survived, she could use the boost to get her going before the season ends.

We have sunny and 65 degrees for the next week or so, and usually have pretty decent, if cooling, weather here till the end of October. When the monsoons set in.

If we do not find a queen or evidence thereof, I will see if the supplier still has queens and make a final attempt to requeen using a 1/8" wire mesh cage pushed into the comb, as you suggest. Worth one more shot!

Again, thanks all for your help and advice...it has really supported my decision making process and progress as a beekeeper!

Janet
 
#31 ·
Thankyou all for the help and advice. It was very much appreciated.

We opened the hive today and on the second frame pulled found a very fat and sassy queen. Gorgeous red rear, big as all get out. What a huge relief!!!

So the shakeout and requeening, in spite of my fumbles, was successful. I am grateful, grateful, grateful!

Will check in a week to see how she is laying and hope to see some capped worker brood.

It is a night for celebration!:gh:
 
#33 ·
Hooray, Janet! Glad to hear re-queening worked. I guess that plastic screen lasted just long enough. I would feed those bees this winter with a Miller-type hive top feeder just as a precaution, and insulate and ventilate the hive as appropriate for your area. Good luck, and I hope next spring finds your bees increasing like a storm!
 
#34 ·
I am leaving the lower hive bodies strictly alone, letting HRM get settled. I have harvested frames in an extra super on top as well as a feeder, but they were starting to store in the frames I am trying to get them to clean, so I will not worry about feeding them for a week...we are on for a good stretch of weather and the bees are flying well and foraging. Pollen coming in too, I see. After that I will take off the cleaned frames and put on a hive top feeder for a while.
 
#35 ·
Janet, sounds like you have done quite well with your bees and leaving the lower hive bodies alone is a very wise decision, the bees need this time to set up the hive for winter. I am very glad that everything has turned out ok :).
 
#36 ·
Well Bill, I am sorely tempted to see if there is new worker brood in the hive, but will limit myself to perhaps peeking at the top hive body frames, and will not pull the hive bodies apart. I have mused long and hard on how to winterize the hive....not sure yet just what approach to take in the rainy Pacific Northwest.
 
#37 · (Edited)
Janet, If you do a quick peek please let us know what you find, This time of the year the upper box should be loaded with capped honey and the brood nest should be in the bottom box. I checked the lower box on one of my hives a month ago just to be sure it was queenright and it was. At this point all six hives has pollen coming in with bees hurriedly zipping in and out on sunny days which is enough to tell me that things are ok in the hives, pulling frames this time of the year is not for the faint of heart as the bees are very defensive, I find that if I sit for about 20 min. and observe the landing board I can tell a lot about what is happening inside the hives.

The way that you go about winterizing will be determiner by several factors.

1. How much does the hive have in honey stores?
2. How big is the cluster ( do you have bees covering frames in only one box or both?)
3. How humid is it in your area?
4. How cold does it get on average in your area?

These are just a few things to look at, when the temps drop a smaller than normal cluster cannot provide enough heat for itself and could starve to death because they are unable to move to new cells of honey when needed, so if your cluster is on the small side and you are expecting real cold weather for long periods of time them insulating the hive would be in order which would also conserve stores if they are a little lite. A top vent should be provided to vent off excess moisture in the hive, especially important in a humid climate.

Where I live in southeast Ohio I will be wrapping my hives in 15 pound felt paper, then place a queen excluder on top of the hives, then a 2 1/2" tall shim box with a 1/2" hole drilled through it it for a vent with a window screen stapled to the bottom. I will fill the shim with cedar chips to absorb any moisture, top with an inner cover, then place a 1/2" foam board on top of the inner cover and top it all off with the telescoping cover. ( The foam board is to help prevent condensation under the inner cover ).

You will need to assess the winter weather in your area and decide a course of action best suited for your hive. Talking with fellow beekeeps in your area can be very helpful as well.

I wish you the best in your winter preparations.....Bill :)
 
#38 ·
Ok I did a peek. I did not pull the boxes apart as I figured the bees should be getting things sealed up for winter.

I pulled off the empty super that presently holds a hive top feeder (it sits over the ventilation hole in the top inner cover) and pulled the three middle frames from the upper of the two hive bodies. I found tons of densely laid capped brood (which should begin hatching over the next few days or so). At least three and possibly 4 frames were laid on and capped. I saw the queen, she is a beauty, just huge.

When I put her in, apart from full frames of honey and pollen, she had 4 largely empty, drawn out combs in the centre of the bottom super and another 4 largely empty and not drawn out frames above them in the top super. So she has done a terrific job. The bees are still bringing in some pollen and nectar, with present daytime temperatures of sunny and 60 degrees (17 centigrade), nightime of 47 degrees (7 centigrade) due to continue at least one more week. It has been an exceptionally dry and sunny fall here, but our weather should break soon and our usual winter day is wet, chilly and with night temps just above freezing.

The shakeout bees are in a spare hive and are busily drawing comb, putting up honey from their syrup feeder and laying drone comb. Definitely a laying worker in there. I will let them carry on and hopefully they will die off over the course of the winter, leaving a fully furnished flat for a spring split off my requeened hive.

Local beekeepers advise a simple tarpaper wrap. I think I will insulate the non sun facing sides of the hive with styrofoam insulation sheets beneath the wrapping, leaving the east facing side wrapped but uninsulated to catch the weak sun it will get on nice days. And I am thinking about some kind of airy rain shelter as well; it really pours here all winter....possibly a box affair with the east side open, and with plenty of clearance so the air can circulate but wind gusts and driving rain will largely be off the hive.

Regards,
Janet
 
#39 ·
Janet, that is fantastic news where your new queen is concerned, your winter prep sounds like a good one, you have thought things out quite well. If you have not considered top insulation yet I might suggest a sheet of Styrofoam be placed on the inner cover to help prevent condensation on top. take care and have a successful winter.
 
#40 ·
Bill a good suggestion. I can fit a custom cut piece of styro insulation inside the top box, under the feeder against the inner cover. I am using the Bee Smart Designs "Ultimate Hive Cover" and so far like it a lot...although the real test will be how it handles the winter. Just looking at the design it struck me it should help with condensation/dripping issues.

Now I can turn my thoughts to planning for the 2013 season!

Thank you all again for the help and advice given this season. I have lots to learn.

Regards,
Janet
 
#41 · (Edited)
Just a friendly update - I may have mentioned it before...the "heft test" is inadequate going into winter, especially in your area. A scale should be used. Two 10-frame Langstroth deeps with inner cover, telescoping top, and bottom board, brood, bees + honey should weigh in excess of 130 lbs before winter, otherwise the bees should be fed. As Bill mentions, the cluster size is important. If they are smaller than 5 frames wide, consider combining them with another colony using the newspaper method. One exception is the Russian strain of bees, which winter quite well in very small clusters (probably not a bad choice of subspecies for British Columbia).

Oh, one more thing...I was admonished recently by some Northern Beek's AGAINST using liquid feed in freezing or near-freezing weather as it can be FATAL to the colony. Fondant, patties, and dry sugar are the choice, again inside the hive.

Also, I really like the roof idea to keep the bees dry. I am considering making 40-hive wagons or trailers with corrugated steel hip roofs that overhang 48". If I can come up with a design that fits and chains down on a semi flatbed efficiently, I won't need a forklift, just a trailer dolly and a winch. It will probably include pallets though, as the operation grows, a forklift will probably become an option for efficiency. The geography of some sites may dictate the final answer.

Good luck!
 
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