U.S. water ph map

[BeeCurious]

Some people ask how much vinegar, or lemon juice to add to their sugar syrup to adjust the ph. The map below shows wide differences of water hardness throughout the U.S. and illustrates why there is no single answer to "How much acid should I add?"

Test paper, such as "Hydrion Papers" are an affordable tool to help you to calculate the correct amount of acid to add for your particular water source.

This map is for rain acidity.


This represents water hardness across the U.S.

[heus]

So should hard water (4.3 range) have vinegar or lemon juice added to it? I assume the lemon juice is the acid, right?

[BeeTech]

both vinegar and lemon juice are acids

[Joseph Clemens]

And pH 4.3 is already quite acidic. pH 7.0 is neutral, below pH 7.0 is increasingly acidic. pH 6.0 is ten times more acidic than pH 7.0, and so on. The pH of lemon juice is around pH 2.0, and vinegar is pH 2.2.

[Jay Burgess]

Adjust the Ph after the syrup is made

[BeeCurious]

Adjust the Ph after the syrup is made

I use ascorbic acid and I've read that ascorbic acid doesn't dissolve well in syrup. I add 3.5 grams of ascorbic acid crystals in the water before adding the 25 pounds of sugar.

[Luterra]

The map shows pH of precipitation, which is always acidic due to carbon dioxide in the air and is more acidic in some areas due to sulfuric acid aerosols from coal burning (i.e. acid rain).

"Hardness" refers to the amount of certain dissolved minerals in water and has relatively little to do with pH. The pH of "hard" water will be higher than precipitation in most places, typically in the range of 6 to 8. This is due to dissolved ions with buffering capacity, mainly carbonate and bicarbonate. The pH of hard water is widely variable even locally due to differences in water source (streams, lakes, aquifers), soil minerals, and bedrock composition.

Unless you are making syrup with rainwater, the map doesn't mean much.

[Fuzzy]

I am afraid that Luterra is correct on this one. The map does not pertain to TAP water that most people use for feeding.
In my area it is not uncommon for the Ph to be in the range of 8-8.4 Very hard indeed.

So, I would be careful using the map data for your feeding purposes.

[dansk]

I think the more important question is, what is the ideal ph for syrup feed for honeybees? The ph can be measured and adjusted when the syrup is made. Does anyone know the ideal ph?

[Joseph Clemens]

The pH of honey is commonly between 3.2 and 4.5. See -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honey#Acidity

[Aerindel]

Its really easy to test your own pH. You can buy test strips for a few dollars in the aquarium section of a pet store.

[BeeCurious]

The map shows pH of precipitation, which is always acidic due to carbon dioxide in the air and is more acidic in some areas due to sulfuric acid aerosols from coal burning (i.e. acid rain).

"Hardness" refers to the amount of certain dissolved minerals in water and has relatively little to do with pH. The pH of "hard" water will be higher than precipitation in most places, typically in the range of 6 to 8. This is due to dissolved ions with buffering capacity, mainly carbonate and bicarbonate. The pH of hard water is widely variable even locally due to differences in water source (streams, lakes, aquifers), soil minerals, and bedrock composition.

Unless you are making syrup with rainwater, the map doesn't mean much.

I added the following "hardness" map.

[Seymore]

Thanks for THAT question, dansk. Was reading this thread scratching my head.

Is this a secret - dropping ph? I've read so very little about it... And is there a rule of thumb, like a tsp of acid will drop ph 1 point per gallon?

[BeeCurious]

I think the more important question is, what is the ideal ph for syrup feed for honeybees? The ph can be measured and adjusted when the syrup is made. Does anyone know the ideal ph?

From the National Honey Board:
"The average pH of honey is 3.9 (with a typical range of 3.4 to 6.1)."

[Michael Pawelek]

I have been in the nursery production business for 40 years and at my location in S.E. Texas have to inject a huge amount of 93% sulfuric acid into the well water just to get it down to a pH range of 5.5-6.0 The maps are irrelivant in my case as water in my deep aquifer have been underground for hundreds of years and the rainfall pH at that point is irrelavent. pH test strips are the answer.

[Luterra]

Is this a secret - dropping ph? I've read so very little about it... And is there a rule of thumb, like a tsp of acid will drop ph 1 point per gallon?

Unfortunately there is no good rule of thumb, because the amount of acid needed depends on the buffering capacity (sometimes called "alkalinity") of the water. If you start with a gallon of rainwater (no alkalinity) at and really hard water (high alkalinity) at pH 7 and add a teaspoon of acid to each, the rainwater will end up with a pH around 1-2 while the hard water may only drop to 5-6.

Use test strips to measure pH and keep track of the amount of acid you add. In the future, if you use the same water source, you can just add the same amount of acid.

[BeeTech]

I think a better question is:
what is the PH of NECTAR?
The bees will need to process the syrup, and, for that to be effective/efficient shouldn't it be as similar to nectar as possible?

[seyc]

Unfortunately there is no good rule of thumb, because the amount of acid needed depends on the buffering capacity (sometimes called "alkalinity") of the water. If you start with a gallon of rainwater (no alkalinity) at and really hard water (high alkalinity) at pH 7 and add a teaspoon of acid to each, the rainwater will end up with a pH around 1-2 while the hard water may only drop to 5-6.

Ummm. . . No. If you have a pH of 7 it is neutral. If your pH is above 7, it is alkaline. If your pH is below 7, it is acidic. Hardness has to do with buffering capacity.

Think of buffering capacity like this. If you have a room that you want to cool down From say 90 degrees to 70 degrees, you buy an air conditioner and stick it in the window. This works if you have a room that is 8x10' (low hardness). If you have a ballroom with a bunch of people dancing, it is not going to do much, unless you get a bunch of them (high hardness, you have to add lots of acid).

Does that make sense?

[Ben Brewcat]

BeeTech asks what I think is the relevant but oft-overlooked question. For those who choose to agonize over pH: definitely be aware that (as noted) rainfall pH is totally different than your tap water's pH. One look at that map had me scratching my head until I read the caption because mine sure was a good two points off... I measure routinely and get the utility's water reports delivered for brewing. As Luterra notes, only by either referring to an analysis and using a reference system can you predict how to nudge your pH around. It's MUCH easier to just make your syrup and then learn that you'll need about [whatever amount of whatever adulterant] per gallon using your water to get you close.

[Ben Brewcat]

I should add, since I implied it but didn't say it: while I (more than most as an uber-nerd) agree that it's fasciating to learn about optima and technical minutiae like nectar pH, for 90% of beekeepers I think your bees' health will benefit more from redirecting that energy towards mite monitoring or the "regular" issues that stress bees. Just from a return-on-time-invested standpoint, I think syrup pH is likely pretty small potatoes.