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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Skagit, WA, USA
    Posts
    241

    Default "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    This is for KY_Mike, Katharina, and others who have used hopguard. Generally, what, or rather, WHEN, to you consider a Fall treatment? Locally, beeks say to begin treating (with any treatment) August 15. I've read threads where people were "fall" treating in November (technically fall, but opening double deeps in Novemember?). It's August 22, and I haven't pulled supers yet. It's getting cooler, and daylight hours are shorter, but it would seem the bees could still bring in nectar for another month. Also, if you've pulled supers, can one feed fall syrup, if needed, while treating? What about treating while queen is still laying what will be winter nurse bees? Too many questions, I know, and YES, I DID a search, thank you.
    I don't keep bees, I tend bees. Does this make me a beet?
    Sea level, Puget Sound, USDA 7a-7b

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Murray County, Georgia
    Posts
    229

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    The problem with waiting is that as the bees begin reducing the amount of brood and bees for the fall the number of mites continues to increase increasing the concentration of mites on bees and in cells. Within two weeks what seemed like a healthy hive becomes sick and collapses down to a frame or two. At that point you may salvage them but you won't have more than a handful of bees to get through the winter with. Treatment then is not so much according to season but according to the total mite load and whether the bees are continuing to maintain a large brood nest are are scaling back. I would contend that the treatment must begin when the bees start scaling back. I can do a mite count today and have 5 mites on 200 bees. But if in two weeks my colony has scaled back from ten frames of brood to five and the 200 bees become 100 I now have at least ten mites per bee and at least twice the concentration in the brood. By the way, that's why in the southeast we have hives collapsing in august after three weeks of nectar dearth in july. In other places where there is nectar all summer and into the fall I hear folks saying that they wait until september or october. My mite counts are stable at 2-4 per 200 bees (sugar roll test) but my bees are on crops and are keeping large brood nests right now.

    Hopguard can be applied with supers on. You would need to apply three weeks in a row at least. I would do a mite count again later in the fall to make sure it worked.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Cheyenne, Wyoming, USA
    Posts
    1,693

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    I am interested in this too, as I have debated when to use the Hopguard I have sitting on my shelf.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Camas, WA
    Posts
    1,962

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    I think that you want to over winter with bees that were not subjected to mites as they were developing or as young bees. That means that you need to remove much of the mite load a couple of brood cycles before fall shutdown. I want to have the mites gone around September 1, so if I'm going to treat I need to do it starting around August 15.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Catlettsburg, KY, USA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    I don't know how much help I'll be. Since my initial spring treatment my bees have done great and my mite counts have been very low so I don't think at this point that I will be doing a fall treatment. Do keep in mind though that Hopguard can be used with the honey supers on and to do 3 treatments each being 1 week apart. I hope I don't sound like a Hopguard spokesperson but I am thrilled with the results I got from using it. My hives are now boiling with bees.

    I guess to me it would depend on how bad of shape the hive is in as far as the number of mites and if your bees have DWV.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Catlettsburg, KY, USA
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    I forgot to add I saw zero negative affects during use. The bees really didn't seem to mind it at all, the queen kept laying and I didn't notice any lost brood.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Skagit, WA, USA
    Posts
    241

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    I certainly will go with the three successive week treatment plan, everyone seems pretty universal as to the effectiveness of that. Honestly, I haven't counted mites in a while (month+), see no DWV. I know there ARE mites, and would probably fall treat regardless, unless counts were single digits, which seems unlikely in August. As a newbie, I've tried to wean myself away from weekly inspections, and have kind of just let the bees be bees for the last month, although I've done quick(for me) inspections of brood pattern and honey frame counts.
    And thanks for the responses...
    Last edited by rsjohnson2u; 08-23-2012 at 10:33 PM. Reason: spelling

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Keno, OR
    Posts
    734

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    I feel that this is more depending on your climate. I live in the mountains at 4000 feet with long cold winters. I pull all my supers on the end of September, that is when we start to have frost at night. I apply my hopguard treatment for 3 weeks in the row. The last treatment remains in the hive when I winter wrap them. I found that I can get away with a once per year mite treatment up here. I contribute this to the super dry climate (humidity 20%) and perhaps because I have carnies. I strongly recommend to check for mites on a regular basis, and treat if you need to. Hopguard is not temperature dependent so it is ok to do it late.
    Klamath Basin Beekeepers Association: www.klamathbeekeepers.org
    Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/kbbafb/

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Skagit, WA, USA
    Posts
    241

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    Thanks. My concern wasn't temperature dependence as much as opening hives late. At 4000 feet it seems as if you're no longer in the hives after late Sept. Where I am, it's wet and sub 50 degrees for months on end. Our big problem is extended periods of no flying weather, often extending into late April, May, and lately, June. My concern on treatment "dates" is therefore more directed at not having the weather conditions to expose the winter cluster to open air. I have carnies also, which have been flying at cooler temps., especially in the mornings.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Keno, OR
    Posts
    734

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    I do open the hives up in October. Temps will be around 45. I pick a sunny day without wind and it works fine. I'm not pulling frames, which means they can stay clustered. I doesn't take much time to put in the strips and close up the hive. Not an issue at all. My harvest is end of September and my last mite treatment ends up mid October.
    Klamath Basin Beekeepers Association: www.klamathbeekeepers.org
    Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/kbbafb/

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
    Posts
    833

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    We don't have your Hopguard here, but we have probably the most breweries in the world compare to the population. What's happen with tracheal mites, dos this product kill the tracheal mites too? How often do you put the strips into the hive for a full treatment (to kill at least close to 90% of the varroa and close to 100% of the tracheal mites)?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Skagit, WA, USA
    Posts
    241

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    Thanks again Katharina. I'm so new at this, a memer of a club, but no local mentor. Most people here talk about not opening hives in winter/spring unless it's 60 degrees. Do you find separating two satcked boxes splits the cluster. I suppose they're in on box or the other, mostly. However I can see how they'd chimney or stovepipe the winter cluster across the gap into both deeps, although they probably don't like the gap between frames of the two boxes.

    Axtmann: Seems like two strips per 10 frames(as in across frames 3 and 8) PER BOX for three consecutive weeks. See Katharina's article at Klamath Beekeepers.

    Anyone observe if Hopguard as any effect on moths?

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
    Posts
    833

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    Does hopguard kill tracheal mites? If not, what is the advantage over Thymol and formic? Do you use hopguard because it is cheap or because of its better result?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Lander, WY
    Posts
    261

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    I have hopguard on order, Never needed control till this year. Should be here in 5 days. I see some rather static dates/months thrown out here for treatment but this year everything happened 30 days ahead of normal (for us), raspberries, apples and swarms peaked a month ahead of normal. I would take care stating "do this by" dates. This year we still have July/August temps and weather in, soon to be, September.
    Sitting at 6000+ feet with temps In 90+F.
    That said It has been another phenomenal year for honey, we pulled a bounty around August 1, supers are full again today Bonus, and I leave them with 50+ pounds of honey for winter.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, OH
    Posts
    2,795

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    Has anyone noticed aggressive behavior while applying Hopguard? I'm in the 2nd week of the 3 treatments. 4 of the 18 hives (the most populous) went absolutely nuts the second I started weaseling the strips down between the frames. Beautiful weather, other hives fine. I was going to write it off to coincidence until the 2nd application, when 3 of those 4 went off on me. I'm going back in today, we'll see what happens.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -H.S. Thompson

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Algoma dr. Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    1,157

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    Yes they dont appreciate having the strips being shoved in. I dont know whether it is all the smell or partly the mechanical invasion. Another thing I have noticed is that a persons breath raises the alarm as well so perhaps you are getting down close enough for that to be a factor. I notice the hives getting generally a bit more testy as fall rolls around.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Athens, OH
    Posts
    2,795

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    Testy is one thing, this was something else. Of course, when they got aggravated, I had the hive apart and had no choice but to put it back together while setting a new Personal Sting Record. It was so ridiculous, I was laughing. Then I wrote a very bad word in my record book.
    Buy the ticket, take the ride. -H.S. Thompson

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Griffin, GA USA
    Posts
    97

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    One of the seniors in my bee club, that has over 500 hives said the bees get real mad when he puts the strips in, but mine never acted like they knew I was doing anything.

    I was also wondering about starting a treatment now, we are still in the mid and upper 80's, but a few weeks ago, I started seeing tiny brown sac looking things in the tray of my Freeman's beetle trap and wondered if they were mite eggs. I did a good inspection this weekend, didn't see any mites, unless I wasn't looking hard enough, but the frames of my deeps are packed with honey all sealed and a very small brood area toward the bottom of many of the frames. I have a super I put on a month ago, and they just don't want to move into it. There are some bees in it, but they won't build comb (a few frames have started comb on it from another hive) and they aren't putting any honey in it.

    Just a few minutes ago, I was down at the hive and saw something that tripped me out.... I have Minnesota Hygenic Italian bees, and as I was watching the bees on the front porch, there were 3 that seemed to be wrestling or something. As I looked closer, it was 2 female workers wrestling out a drone with deformed wings. They literally threw him out of the hive and one of them was on his back on the ground still trying to drag him farther away. It finally flew off and I killed him so he wouldn't suffer.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
    Posts
    833

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    Beewildered61
    when you see drones or bees with deformed wings that mean you have a big mite problem in you hive. Treat as soon as possible or your hive is gone the end of October. The bee population goes down this time of the year but you mites population doubles every 21 days.
    A while ago I asked for information how Hopguard works on tracheal mites, so far not even one answer. I have the feeling, there are no tracheal mites in North Amerika.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Herrick, SD USA
    Posts
    4,639

    Default Re: "Fall" Hopguard Treatment

    Quote Originally Posted by Axtmann View Post
    Beewildered61
    when you see drones or bees with deformed wings that mean you have a big mite problem in you hive. Treat as soon as possible or your hive is gone the end of October. The bee population goes down this time of the year but you mites population doubles every 21 days.
    A while ago I asked for information how Hopguard works on tracheal mites, so far not even one answer. I have the feeling, there are no tracheal mites in North Amerika.
    The manufacturers makes no claims of tracheal control. Yes there are tracheal mites in North America but how much of an economic impact they are is open to debate. http://www.mannlakeltd.com/beekeepin...es/page63.html
    "People will generally accept facts as truth only if the facts agree with what they already believe."- Andy Rooney

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