"Ve are too soon olt und too late schmart."- A nameless German philosopher
Thanks Jim, that's what I'm trying to say. I think this calendar that is linked suggests you plant them on day 8. Too early for anyone I've talked with. If it works, fine. The OP Planted the cells on 8/31 and the cells will hatch 9/3. Although I suspect they will hatch late on 9/2. check out the link, see what you think
Also, Africanized = faster. Those AHB queenies are out to terrorize on day 13 to 15 from egg-lay, day 10 -12 from graft, if anyone is evil enough top graft those things.
Ryan: the. calender linked is suggesting that a graft on the first should be planted on the 10th which would make it 9 days old. We prefer the 11th since by the afternoon of the 12th you and I both know they will be popping like crazy. My other quibble I have is that they are talking about grafting 1 day old larva, isnt ideal grafting larvae just a few hours old?
Kc: I think you are no doubt on the mark with the quicker hatch times of ahb. I think that is an inherent advantage they have that has allowed their spread, and it also allows them to resist varroa better
Yes something is off. Trouble is they say that cell doesn't hatch until the 13th....day 12 since the graft. If you don't think it's hatching until the 13th, why would you put it on in on the 10th. Just like the OP just planted cells on 8/31 that won't hatch until 9/3. Figured that way, they went in as 8 day cells. Fine if it works for him, but thats 2 days younger than what you or I put in.
12-24 hour larva is fine, I don't think there is any advantage to going under that age.
Give the queen a frame Monday afternoon. Graft that frame friday morning. They will hatch the next Tuesday. The link to the calendar says that you should be able to graft on Thursday. It doesn't work. Maybe at 10 or 11 pm you could graft a few larva just an hour old. Holy cow that doesn't work at all. They are trying to graft about 20 hours early. If you try this schedule you'll probably have nothing but a frame of eggs to look at when you go to graft.
This calendar is very cool. But it seems off. If it works for those who have tried it, Great. If anyone is having trouble making this thing work for them, I'm not surprised. I'm sure it's by the book, but something is slightly off.
Actually we usually use a 5 day frame rotation seems like it takes a day for the bees to get them ready to lay in, always seems like its hard to find a nice clean dark comb that isn't filled with pollen or nectar. As far as larva age, im trying to point out that it is a variable in cell hatching if there is as much as a 24 hour age difference. I have always assumed with grafting larva the younger the better.
Breeders have been grafting since Doolittle did it, and have tried all ages up to 4th day larvae. My best results happen between 80 and 84 hours after egg-lay, and with plenty of royal jelly in the hole, but good queens do often result from larvae up to at least 12 hours older than that, perhaps as much as 40 hours after the chorion (egg shell) dissolves.
Sometime along the process, the nurse bees start feeding them worker jelly, not royal jelly. That is what I try to avoid, as fewer ovarioles tend to develop, earlier supercedure tends to occur, lower % mating tends to occur. Nothing cast in stone, here, but I like them 6 to 10 hours after metamorphosis to larva with a bit of royal jelly in the hole. A dry larva has little chance of making it. Your bees and methods will likely vary, but should vary only a small amount within consistent conditions and methods.
I like how you are thinking "inside the hexagon".
Last edited by kilocharlie; 09-03-2012 at 08:35 PM.