Brushing bees from frames, without repercussions

[wanderyr]

I may have just hit upon something cool.

I was brushing bees from full frames of honey. They get irate, you know. I made a "strategic withdrawal", carrying the frame I was holding to about 20 feet away. There is a small pond there.

I brushed the remaining dozen or so bees into the water, to see what they would do. They all promptly started swimming (and not attacking me!). The wind blew them to the edge, where they climbed onto rocks and started drying off.

Unless someone here tells me what I'm missing, I'm going to start bringing a casserole pan full of water with me on harvesting days. I'll brush the bees into the water, instead of back into the hive. When I'm done, I'll dump the water (and bees) near the front of the hive.

Thoughts?

Thanks,
wanderyr

[Charlie B]

I though you were kidding at first but apparently you're serious. If you flick with your brush instead of rolling, you won't make them mad. Bees hate to be rolled. Use a bee escape and save yourself allot of work.

[rwurster]

I do 3 shakes then brush them off with cheatgrass stalks. it doesnt take much time to figure out how to do it but i have never made them angrier than they were... post hive opening. Taking bees and brushing them off away from the hive is a bad idea, they probably arent coming home. Experimenting isnt a bad thing either, I have a swarm I caught which is my 'experimental hive' that I have harassed in almost every way under the sun at least 2 times a week since I captured them. Important note: I have 15 other hives I dont screw with Don't bring a pan of water or brush them off into water away from the hive, brushing is an art that you need to practice to perfect. Keep the bees in their respective hives and use protective gear especially if youre going to make them pissy. I only brush when Im taking a frame of capped/larvae/eggs to put in another hive so the second hive can raise a queen. If you need bees out of a honey super do what charlie b said or use a fume board, save yourself some time and some dead bees.

[Keth Comollo]

If you flick with your brush instead of rolling, you won't make them mad. Bees hate to be rolled.

Spot on!

[dnichols]

Wow?!

[wanderyr]

Well, I seem to have hit a nerve. Don't worry guys, I won't get any more bees wet. Thanks CharlieBee for the flick vs roll, and thanks rwuster for the supportive advice.

I must say, though, I'm not sure I see the problem. Bees get wet all the time, naturally, in my pond. Its windy here, and I'm always seeing them get blown into the pond when they're drinking or collecting water. The same wind blows them to the far side (only a few feet away), and they dry off and fly away... Of course, it helps that I'm in the high desert. It's so dry here that glasses of ice water don't show condensation, and any spilled water will evaporate over the course of minutes.

I'm certainly not trying to damage, or mistreat them. That's why I posted the question to the forum, right? To make sure I don't do anything dumb.

Thanks guys,
wanderyr

[rlsiv]

Wanderyr, I'd be concerned about shaking/brushing any bees off the frames away from the hive, (whether it is into water or not) as these are generally the nurse/house bees and not foragers. So even if they are little olympic swimmers, they'd have a tough time identifying how to get back "home".

There is no such thing as a dumb question.

[danmcm]

rlsiv hit on the same thing I thought when reading your post if they have not have a orientation flight and you drop the more then a few feet from the hive they are lost. twenty bees not a big deal but as a technique to de-bee frames probably not a great way to keep your population healthy. my 2 cents

[Katharina]

The water boarding of bees sounds like torture to me.
First you should try to drive them down with honey robber or something similar. My supers have a 3/4 hole in front, and I tell you they go down quickly if you pump smoke into the hole. Then you can shake off some of them. The final step would be brushing them off. I hate using a bee brush, because it does irritate them. They also get caught in the bristles. I prefer to use a goose feather. It works so much better. Put it into an old pen shaft and you even have a handle.

[mrobinson]

Look ... these are stinging insects by nature. You can't change that.

Take your bee brush and, smoothly and gently but pointedly, sweep them off the surface that you need to clean. Obviously, since you are disrupting their hive, they will launch some kind of defensive response, but you'd probably do the same thing if it was your house. Be about your business, and trust your bee suit (if any) to do its job. Any response that the bees might produce to your action is, well, "nothing personal." (Don't take it out on them by sweeping them into a pond! What, exactly, prithee, did they do to you?)

Be about your business, and let the bees be about theirs. Recognizing, of course, that "their business," as Nature has equipped them to perceive it, is to defend the hive against you.

I have worked with bees for quite some time now wearing a veil, disposable rubber gloves, a short-sleeved T-shirt, shorts, and hiking boots. (Trust me: I have a suit and I am not afraid to use it.) Yes, "bees are buzzing all around you," bonking into you with an insect's equivalent of a body-slam, but ... that's just what these insects do. Meanwhile, you have business to attend to, and if you will simply attend to it ... you'll discover that they are not-at-all "out to get you." Yes, it is absolutely possible that you will get stung zero-or-more times. But, don't take it personally. It's the individual, genetically-programmed decision of an individual insect who will die for the sake of her hive in the attempt. Meanwhile, you have a job to do, and to be done with ...

I've got a smoker, of course, but a spray-bottle full of peppermint oil and water works just as well and won't burn your fingers. Makes 'em think it's raining outside, I suppose; anyway, it works. If you do get zapped (and you will...), the peppermint oil masks the alarm pheromone until you can scrape the stinger out with a dull butter-knife blade. (Much easier than taking your glove off.) You've got a job to do. Stay focused on that. Strange as it may seem, it's rather like Zen.

[Keth Comollo]

If you flick them off properly they hardly respond at all.

[Sharpbees]

You can also turn the frame up sideways and brush upwards toward the top of the frame it doesn't make them as mad as when you sweep downward. (I found this out at our last regional meeting), since cells are drawn out at an angle any bees in the cells are bent backward when you brush them downward, in essence your trying to break their backs and they don't like it. By brushing toward the top your brushing them out of the cell. Just remember like the other posts say flick the brush, not long brushing strokes.

[Sam Fugate]

I though you were kidding at first but apparently you're serious. If you flick with your brush instead of rolling, you won't make them mad. Bees hate to be rolled. Use a bee escape and save yourself allot of work.

I don't mean to hijack this thread but, explain bee escape to a first year beek. Namely me.

[Charlie B]

A bee escape is usually placed underneath the honey super the day before you want to harvest. The bees in the super leave through the openings or "escapes" but can't figure out how to enter. The next day most of the bees are gone. You may have a few stragglers but that's it. Here's a link to one you can buy.

http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com...uctinfo/254ES/

Much easier than flicking with a brush.

[Sam Fugate]

Very cool ! 3 on they way. These are a must have. Thanks.

[iwlf]

Try using a large feather. I've attached one to the body of an old, empty "Bic" pen. Clears them off gently.

[the kid]

t word the end of my first year having hives I saw a guy hold the frame in his left hand and hold it over the hive , and hit the back of the hand fairly hard with the right hand ,, the bees just dropped down on the frames and went down into the hive ,, I thought now I will have to give that a try ,, as when I used a brush it just peeved the bees off ,, I thought , hey cann't be much worse ,, went out and tryed it ,, now I never use a brush ,, I just hit my hand ,, works great ,, and yes if I had not seen it done and some one told me this ,, I would have said sure your trying to get the crap stung out of me ,, but I seen it done so I thought I would try it ,, now thats the way I do it .. put on the suit and try it it does work and bo I do not wear a bee suit doing it

[Charlie B]

They work great Sam, you won't regret buying them.

[Dan. NY]

I pulled a frame of honey recently and used a feather to clear it, sweeping downward while holding the frame over the hive. No stings, no angrier than normal bees. It took a while though. A bee escape may be in my future.

[John Kuhn]

I blow the bees off the frames with a leaf blower with the speed dialed down, in the direction of the front of the hive. Seems to work fine, have not seen any dead bees, nor do they seem especially angry. I haven't tried a fume board, but that might be the best solution.