I have that sinking feeling...looking for ANY advice.

**uberhausen** · 08-18-2012, 06:58 PM

Hey guys,I really need some help..let me break it down for you.
So,this is my first year keeping bees and I have run across some issues. I hived my first package of bees this year and they built up quickly. I fed them a 1:1 sugar water mix throughout the first few months and began adding supers as they filled out 7/10 frames. I use a Langstroth hive. I woke up one morning and found TONS of bees bearding outside of the hive. This made me happy,as I was witnessing,what I thought, was a happy hive..maybe just a little congested and hot. I was planning on adding a fourth super that weekend. I came home that evening and was saddened by the sight of a hive that had swarmed. I quickly opened the hive to confirm my suspicions and I was right. I did a bunch of reading and there are so many opinions and advice,my head began to spin. I was confused on what to do so I took it slow and immersed myself in any literature that would lead me down the right path.
I decided to allow the girls to make their own queen as I did find a few queen cells on the bottom of the frames. I want to keep it as natural as possible so I thought with them making their own new queen would be the best thing to do.
Well,after about 3-4 weeks I finally decided to order a new queen as I never found the new queen that they may have raised. I did find some destroyed queen cells but no new eggs/larvae or brood. The frames are all packed with pollen and nectar but no eggs still. I added the new queen about 5 days ago and the girls didn't seem to be angered by her arrival but rather calm about her. I opened the hive again today and I didn't find her. The frames that did have any open spaces are now filled with pollen and nectar but no room for new eggs. I ended up putting 2-new frames of foundation in the middle of the bottom brood box in hope that I just overlooked the new queen so she can have some new space to lay after they draw some new comb out.
I know that I'm running on here but could someone please turn me in the right direction as what to do? Should I begin to feed them sugar water again so that they can draw new comb? They have lots of capped honey. How long should it be until I see new eggs?larvae if she WAS accepted? Or is this hive doomed?
Thanks for taking the time to read this lengthy thread. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

**Rader Sidetrack** · 08-18-2012, 07:12 PM

If you had a second hive, you could transfer a frame with eggs to the hive in question. By doing that once a week for several weeks, if necessary, you could determine whether the hive is queenright, or provide the means for them to create a queen. But you may only have one hive, so at this point, wait.

From Michael Bush:

Don't freak out if the queen doesn't lay right away

Some will lay as soon as there is comb ¼" deep in the hive. Some take as long as two weeks to start to lay. If they aren't laying in two weeks they probably aren't going to and it's time to freak out.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beespackages.htm

**uberhausen** · 08-18-2012, 07:27 PM

I plan on buying new equipment for next year as I do want to keep at least 2 hives. What should I do with all of those frames filled with pollen and nectar? It seems that she will have no place to lay except the new frames that I checker boarded into the brood box. Should I also decrease the size of the hive to 2 boxes until she builds back up again?

**Lburou** · 08-18-2012, 08:06 PM

I'd recommend you read more at the link Rader gave you. Look for links like "Bee Math" and "finding the queen". Its not too late for the queen they raised to show up and start laying. One of those queens is likely in there, give the bees some time to sort it out and get started.

**scrapiron** · 08-19-2012, 05:18 AM

Dont feed, leave them alone. Wait 3 weeks and check to see if you have a brood nest started. They will sort things out. Put that empty super on and they will move stores up into it, making room for nest.

**ralittlefield** · 08-19-2012, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by uberhausen

The frames that did have any open spaces are now filled with pollen and nectar but no room for new eggs. I ended up putting 2-new frames of foundation in the middle of the bottom brood box in hope that I just overlooked the new queen so she can have some new space to lay after they draw some new comb out.

Foundation may not be viewed by bees as "working space" and you may have trouble getting them to draw it out at this point in the season. If you can get some drawn comb into the hive it would be a great help. It sounds to me that you are honey bound, so feeding may be counter productive. The queen needs some empty cells to lay in. I agree with scrapiron.

**Goldprospector** · 08-19-2012, 06:55 AM

Originally Posted by uberhausen

This made me happy,as I was witnessing,what I thought, was a happy hive..maybe just a little congested and hot. I was planning on adding a fourth super that weekend.

If you have full supers, ectract one and put it back on. If you have some drawn comb, put some empty frames or a whole super on.

Originally Posted by scrapiron

Dont feed, leave them alone. Wait 3 weeks and check to see if you have a brood nest started. They will sort things out. Put that empty super on and they will move stores up into it, making room for nest.

I agree with scrapiron.

**uberhausen** · 08-19-2012, 06:56 AM

Wow! Thanks for the replies. Quick question: So I should just put the empty super on top of the 3-mediums? My only concern is the amount of excessive space that there will be until they establish a new bee nest and their numbers increase. I'm really worried about SHB and wax moths.

**KQ6AR** · 08-19-2012, 07:01 AM

I agree with scrapiron. But it sounds like there might be too much nectar in the hive. If you had drawn supers they might move some up for you. Not having drawn supers I'd extract one of the brood boxes to give the new queen room to lay. One of our hives is in a similar situation, I added a drawn honey super last week & will be checking them today.

Originally Posted by scrapiron

Dont feed, leave them alone. Wait 3 weeks and check to see if you have a brood nest started. They will sort things out. Put that empty super on and they will move stores up into it, making room for nest.

**New Ky Beekeeper** · 08-19-2012, 07:47 AM

I want to add an extra step to the above advice: I really like that you are going to start a second hive next year. Two hives will give you so many more options. But I want you to stop doing what I did my first couple of years. You may be getting into your hives too often...... Some queens don't like that. And everytime you are in it, you have a chance of "rolling" or smashing the queen.

I have a hive on one farm that I like so much, that this spring, I took the top brood box, split the frames into two different boxes and made two new hives. When I put the frames in the boxes, I did what an older, more experienced gentlemen told me: Feed them once and leave them alone for 1 month. Both hives are booming today.

So, when it comes to bees, relax. Enjoy. So many times I have looked at the outside of a hive and thought I had a problem when in fact, I didn't.... Also, in the spring. Don't feed so much.

Good luck, I bet your just fine,
Phil

**GLOCK** · 08-19-2012, 08:44 AM

I had 3 hives swarm this year and it took all aleast 30+ day for the new queen to start laying. And once you find a queen it gets easyer to find them every time .
You need laying space i would not feed take out some honey good luck.
If you can keep 1 hive going 3 would be no harder it would be easyer you would have resources and more honey and bees.
What a great hobby.

**libhart** · 08-19-2012, 05:50 PM

When starting out, drawn comb is like gold. You so often hear, "give them some comb" and you just don't have any. That's one thing that def. makes the future years easier than the first. Now to actually tell you something that you don't know

if you do extract a super, just remember it's probably not really honey. They will cap syrup and since you fed there's probably quite a bit of it mixed in. Hang onto it though, you can always feed it back them later if you need to.

**franktrujillo** · 08-19-2012, 06:13 PM

well, maybe this will help you.take the out side frames of your deep or deeps and extract them dont know if your using double deeps before your supers as i do but that should give you two or four empty frames checker board in the middle.since you want to be as natural as possible dont feed at all there no nutrition in that for the bees use as a last resort if there starving only.i have been treatment free going on 6 years haven't fed more than 50lbs of sugar in that whole time and i open feed so i fed to all my hives at once the hives that need it usually occupy the feeder plus any wild hive around thats in early spring before any flowers are out.keeps bee close to hive just incase of cold snap.after flowers emerge i dont feed.i also dont feed any packages i buy for genic diversity purposes makes them stronger.i raise multiple breeds of bees.hope that helps.