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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Hamilton, AL
    Posts
    61

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Here's a pic of the dippers I made to measure the OA.
    ayozk1.jpg

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Rhineland-Palatinate, Germany
    Posts
    833

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Use a rust free steel pipe or aluminium and not copper. If you're not cleaning you copper pipe very careful you will have copper acetate in your next treatment. This is very healthy when the fumes come in contact with your honey.
    Evaporate from the bottom, oxalic acid vapour goes up in the air and not down. After the treatment you will have microscopic fine acid drops in you hive and not crystals. That's because of the humidity in the hive. If mites come in contact with this moistures it kill the mites. The vapour does not kill tracheal mites

  3. #23
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Rockford, MI
    Posts
    2,745

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    I think you need another "field tester" for your vaporizer set up Shadow...... let me know when you are ready for my address! lol

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Hamilton, AL
    Posts
    61

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Lol. If I ever get this thing completly figured out I may have to send out a few test models Mr.Beeman.

    Thanks for the info Axtmann. I didn't know about the copper and acid mix would make copper acetate. I do know that plain black iron or galvinized pipe would be a no-no. Here what info I do have:
    Aluminum melts at 1220*F and vaporizes at 4566*F. Well above the 300-315*F to vaporize OA. At low temperatures aluminum produces no toxic gases.
    Stainless steel since it's an alloy melts at a broad temperature, depending on the specific alloy content. Stainless steel, 304 316 & 416, should remain inert below 800*F and produce no toxic gas. Oxalic acid is used to clean stainless steel.
    Looks like I'm gonna have to rebuild with SS or AL.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Hamilton, AL
    Posts
    61

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    I got a few numbers today on my 12V set up.
    Using the 12V battery on my John Deere Gator, 230 cranking amps.
    Temperature here today was 84*F.
    15 sec- 95*F
    30 sec- 115*F
    45 sec- 152*F
    1 min- 195*F
    1:15- 225*F
    1:30- 265*F
    1:45- 300*F
    2:00- 328*F
    Should do better with a larger battery with 700-800 cranking amps.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Grayson, KY
    Posts
    295

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    How are you measuring the temps?

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Hamilton, AL
    Posts
    61

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Fluke meter with a temp probe in the combustion chamber.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Grayson, KY
    Posts
    295

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Same way that I've been using with the 110 rig I've been working on.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Kenosha,WI
    Posts
    195

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    You should see the same temps over time regardless of the cranking amp size of 12 volt battery connected. The results should be fine like you have it as all oxalic acid should sublimate in 3 minutes.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Hamilton, AL
    Posts
    61

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by BigGun View Post
    Same way that I've been using with the 110 rig I've been working on.
    Cool. What are you using for a heating element?


    Quote Originally Posted by RogerCrum View Post
    You should see the same temps over time regardless of the cranking amp size of 12 volt battery connected. The results should be fine like you have it as all oxalic acid should sublimate in 3 minutes.
    Thanks for the info. I couldn't remember if the cranking amps or the cold cranking amps would make a difference. I'll do the test again later and post the results.

  11. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Grayson, KY
    Posts
    295

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow-cw View Post
    Cool. What are you using for a heating element?



    Thanks for the info. I couldn't remember if the cranking amps or the cold cranking amps would make a difference. I'll do the test again later and post the results.
    Currently a clothes iron. But it has an 1100 watt element and not much of a thermostat. It heats up quick and goes way over temp before I can do much. I'm trying to convince the wife to get a new flat iron so can try its heating element. Might work better. I ordered a glow plug of the right type and waiting for it to arrive. I'm going to build one like the Varrox. I think that's what it's called.

  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Houston, Texas, USA
    Posts
    460

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    ShadowCW,
    I just saw one of my bees with deformed wings so I am looking at doing an implementation using your glow plug system. However I hope to find some fittings to interface to some 1/2" SS tubing I have for an applicator. Once I buy one of the two glow plugs you mentioned I will start the search for interfacing SS hardware (not sure what size or pitch the threads are on the glow plug yet).
    Anyway I just finished building four of the D. Coats NUCs that are built from 1/2" plywood and do not have an SBB screened bottom. So my question is when you do the vaporized OA treatment does it kill the mites or just make them loose their grip temporarily. My concern is whether the mites that have fallen to the solid wood floor of the NUC will recover and crawl back up or not.
    Thanks for the idea, time and support.
    Mike
    N5RWH - 9a

  13. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    VENTURA, California, USA
    Posts
    3,604

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    That's a nice set up!
    Caution:
    1. The oxalic acid will sublime when heated and if you wait for 10 minutes it will precipitate as a very small crystal.
    2. Do not pull the unit off the hive to soon because you will expose your lungs to the micro crystals!
    Good luck,
    Ernie
    My websitehttp://bees4u.com/

  14. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Hamilton, AL
    Posts
    61

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by mmmooretx View Post
    ShadowCW,
    I just saw one of my bees with deformed wings so I am looking at doing an implementation using your glow plug system. However I hope to find some fittings to interface to some 1/2" SS tubing I have for an applicator. Once I buy one of the two glow plugs you mentioned I will start the search for interfacing SS hardware (not sure what size or pitch the threads are on the glow plug yet).
    Anyway I just finished building four of the D. Coats NUCs that are built from 1/2" plywood and do not have an SBB screened bottom. So my question is when you do the vaporized OA treatment does it kill the mites or just make them loose their grip temporarily. My concern is whether the mites that have fallen to the solid wood floor of the NUC will recover and crawl back up or not.
    Thanks for the idea, time and support.
    Hi,
    The OA will kill the mites. There are several debates as to how it kills them. Some say it burns their feet and mouths where they can not eat or crawl. Just remember it does not penetrate the capped brood so several treatments must be applied.
    The threads on the glow plugs, Champion CH69 and Autolite 1104, are 12mm X 1.25 metric. to simplify the set-up I just turned the threads off and fasten it with a set screw. I'm machining another set up from stainless steel and aluminum. I'll post pics when I have it finished this week. Would love to see what you build also.


    Quote Originally Posted by BEES4U View Post
    That's a nice set up!
    Caution:
    1. The oxalic acid will sublime when heated and if you wait for 10 minutes it will precipitate as a very small crystal.
    2. Do not pull the unit off the hive to soon because you will expose your lungs to the micro crystals!
    Good luck,
    Good advice.
    Thanks!

  15. #35
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Silicon Valley, CA
    Posts
    1,235

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    "and if you wait for 10 minutes it will precipitate as a very small crystal"

    It is my belief that the vapor is hydrophyllic. The bees keep the interior of the hive at a very high moisture content due to evaporation and respiration. The vapor hits the moisture and is readily absorbed. This drastically changes the PH of the moisture in the hive to a highly acid condition.

    The bees will change out the air in the hive as soon as you open it up. They will set up a fan and move the old air out until the inside air meets their "specs".
    So, as long as the hive components are damp, there will be no crystals precipitating. The surfaces will have a low PH but can'[t tell for how long.

    Fuzzy

  16. #36
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Houston, Texas, USA
    Posts
    460

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    [QUOTE=shadow-cw;840183]Hi,
    The OA will kill the mites. There are several debates as to how it kills them. Some say it burns their feet and mouths where they can not eat or crawl. Just remember it does not penetrate the capped brood so several treatments must be applied.
    The threads on the glow plugs, Champion CH69 and Autolite 1104, are 12mm X 1.25 metric. to simplify the set-up I just turned the threads off and fasten it with a set screw. I'm machining another set up from stainless steel and aluminum. I'll post pics when I have it finished this week. Would love to see what you build also.ENDQUOTE]

    I ordered my unit today and ill have it tomorrow, right at $10, now onto the hardware search. Would you happen to know how much current it draws? I can use my Honda EU2000i generator battery charger port or a 12mah battery I use in my kayak depending on needed current for 2 minutes. If I do not need to buy anything else that would be nice.
    Thanks again for all of your support.
    Last edited by mmmooretx; 08-20-2012 at 06:50 PM.
    Mike
    N5RWH - 9a

  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Hamilton, AL
    Posts
    61

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    From what I have read 10-12 amps but that's in a engine and controlled by a glow plug relay. Out in the open just straight wired I really have no idea but I'll see if I can figure out how to check it.

  18. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Houston, Texas, USA
    Posts
    460

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by shadow-cw View Post
    From what I have read 10-12 amps but that's in a engine and controlled by a glow plug relay. Out in the open just straight wired I really have no idea but I'll see if I can figure out how to check it.
    I will have the plug tomorrow, and if they don't have it listed I can measure the resistance and use Ohms law to calculate. However was the 10-12 amps for all 6 or 8 plugs? With 8 plugs at 12 amps that is nearly 100 amps without the starter. If it is 1-2 amps per plug my 12 ah battery can deal with it for the 2 needed minutes per hive I think. Oh well just thinking out loud, thanks again for the great idea.
    Mike
    N5RWH - 9a

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Belpre,Ohio, USA
    Posts
    1,366

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    I have been following this thread with a particular interest, I plan on building one of these units this winter but for now I was wondering if a battery charger would work as an energy source, set on 12 volt or even 6 volts perhaps?

  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Hamilton, AL
    Posts
    61

    Default Re: My Oxalic Acid Vaporizer

    Quote Originally Posted by mmmooretx View Post
    I will have the plug tomorrow, and if they don't have it listed I can measure the resistance and use Ohms law to calculate. However was the 10-12 amps for all 6 or 8 plugs? With 8 plugs at 12 amps that is nearly 100 amps without the starter. If it is 1-2 amps per plug my 12 ah battery can deal with it for the 2 needed minutes per hive I think. Oh well just thinking out loud, thanks again for the great idea.
    10-12 amps per plug is what i read but it said that the plugs draw the highest amperage at the start then taper off. I don't know if the plugs do that own there own or is the glow plug relay steps down the amperage. The test I run was with a small 12V battery, I'm going to do the test again with a regular sized battery to see if the 2 minutes to get up to temperature still hold true. Let us know what you find out and I'll test mine and post the results in a day or two, I nearly have my new one built.

    Quote Originally Posted by WWW View Post
    I have been following this thread with a particular interest, I plan on building one of these units this winter but for now I was wondering if a battery charger would work as an energy source, set on 12 volt or even 6 volts perhaps?
    I have saw a vaporizer being demonstrated using a 12 volt battery charger and it worked just fine.

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