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10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

27K views 62 replies 34 participants last post by  TWall 
#1 ·
When I came home today my Amish neighbors were spraying their pumpkin field (in full bloom) with Sevin.
Only 200 yards from my 50 colony home yard. I went straight over to talk to them and they had apparently just gotten started.
However they had already sprayed a good strip and I could clearly see the bees working the open blooms.
They were very polite and stopped the spraying.
I offered to screen in my bees tonight so they could spray in the AM.
After the spray has dried I will open things back up. I don't think there are many options here.
They don't want to lose the pumpkins, I don't want to lose my bees.
Any suggestions? Will the bees be harmed by this once the spray has dried?
 
#3 ·
From the net...

Carbaryl (Sevin)

Bees poisoned with carbaryl can take 2–3 days to die, appearing inactive as if cold. It allows them time to take contaminated nectar and pollen back to the colony. Some crops treated with Sevin under the wrong conditions (in bloom, using a dust formulation, with large numbers of bees in the field) have been responsible for disastrous kills. Sevin is one of the United States' most widely used insecticides for a wide variety of insect pests. It is also one of the most toxic to honey bees, in certain formulations. These should never be sprayed on flowering crops especially if bees are active and the crop requires pollination. There are formulations, however, which are determined to be less toxic (see tables). Usually, applicator-beekeeper communication can effectively be used to adequately protect bees from Sevin poisoning.
 
#5 ·
I raise some winter squash. It blooms in the AM and usually by mid afternoon the blossoms are closed. I would think pumpkins would do the same. I think it would be best if the pumpkins were sprayed in the evening when the blossoms are closed. Then, in the AM, the blossoms will open up and be clean. Otherwise, the Sevin spray will get into the blossoms.

I am not an expert on this. Just trying to help.
 
#6 ·
agree with spieker. squash and pumpkin bloom early and are often worked by squash bee and honey bee early in day. Best for bee if spray is late in day but if it is wet and humid it's not so good for the pumpkin... without pollinators hitting those flowers they will have alot drop off and have poor pumpkin set. And lets be real Amish like baptists are different from area to area and some are more lax then others. Squash bugs and squash beetles are hard to control and they don't have a good bio-control out there for them. gotta strike a balance.
 
#7 ·
These are dirt floor poor Amish, very good people but no recourse for me if they kill my bees.
Just got off the phone with Bayer Crop Science, the first thing the representative said is make sure the wind isn't blowing toward your bees. I just about exploded on him, he obviously knew nothing about pollination.
Then he pulled the label up on his system and said wait a minute the residual will kill bees for up to 30 days (well DUH!!!)
His final answer was "tell them to find another (more bee friendly) product to take care of their problem or they'll hear from your attorney". As I said these are very poor Amish, and It would do no good to go after them.
 
#10 ·
Leaf Insect Plant pathology Plant Plane

I spoke with the Amishmen again, he said he would give me time (a day or so) to find an alternative control for his bug problem.
I have posted a pic of the invader, does anyone know of a bee friendly method to control these?
He has no idea what they are but he knew Sevin would knock them out.
I don't really see any damage to his pumpkins?
When I collected this sample (6:30 PM) as others have said the blooms were closed, however ther were still lots of bees looking for open ones.
The Amish still thinks he must spray something. It is now on me to find out what can be safely used.
This is a permanent yard so moving the bees out would not be an easy fix, especially with a 30 day residual.
 
#43 ·
It is now on me to find out what can be safely used.
This is a permanent yard so moving the bees out would not be an easy fix, especially with a 30 day residual.
I know neighbor stuff can be difficult...but making this your problem doesn't make it your problem. It is up to the neighbor not to use pesticides illegally (and there are real consequences...this isn't a minor technicality.

deknow
 
#12 ·
I grow pumpkins; I only spray when the plants are young. By this time of year they are large and strong enough that the squash bugs and cuc Beatles really cant do much damage. Before they start to run is when they are most vulnerable.

The flowers close in late afternoon, just ask that the spray after they close so your bees are not in the field and the flowers themselves are not getting sprayed.
 
#16 ·
Thiodane aka Endosulfan, 8 hours toxicity, or Asana aka Esfenvalerate no toxicity to bees on blooms once dry. Both will drop bees on the spot if they're sprayed. Take it from me. I have bees, and spray on the bloom, all the time. When crops need sprayin, they get it, and the bees always get consideration. Flip flop, both of those chemicals are registered pesticides requiring applicator license.
 
#17 ·
Mind you, this advice is coming from someone who had only a few squash plants. We would actually use tape to press against the eggs and wingless nymphs to kill them, but I can tell you that squash bugs will very quickly devastate a plant and the produce affecting it's appearance and ability to keep in storage. I try to avoid spraying but if I use anything, I use either Spinosad or Permethrin in the evening to minimize the effect on all pollinators. I believe Permethrin needs to actually contact bees to cause problems. Adult squash bugs are hard to kill...
I'm not an expert just sharing my inexpert knowledge.:scratch:
 
#18 ·
I don't know the law in Mich, but in CA pesticide users can be held libel for spraying near the hives if they don't follow the protocol in the statute. Find out the law in your area Show it to the farmer if it favors you.
 
#19 ·
lol to guns. Not much pesticide problems on mine, and with the right chems it dosen't hurt the bees more than what the rest of the ag crows is dousing the world in. As far as spray on pumpkins, it's bravo bravo bravo. I'm so tired of bravo. I spray, it rains, I spray, it rains. Luckily low toxicity to bees. so if you see spraying on pumpkins and automatically assume its killing bees, OR that you know what they're actually doing, that's unprofitable. Ironically sevin and premethrin, the two most used pesticides by small operators/homeowners, are pretty much the most, extremely toxic to bees. But seriously, you see a guy spray pumpkins 8 times, its fungicide. Bugs are easier to kill than fungus, one, maybe two rotations of systemic knocks em dead.
 
#21 ·
My wife doesn't use pesticides, and says that the only way to get rid of them without pesticides is by manually squashing every bug you see, and pulling off any leave containing eggs,and squashing them. What she does is plant radishes in between each of her squash or pumpkin plants. Apparently, the stink bugs don't like the radishes, and bug off. Of course, this does you absolutely no good whatsoever.
 
#26 ·
We traveling boys do not screen hives. We laod them on a truck then net the whole load. And then the truck has to keep moving all day long or you will cook the load, goes the same for doing it to a hive sitting on the ground you screen it even for a day and you WILL cook the hive killing most if not all the bees and brood. We pollinate Pumpkins all the time, our growers spray before the bloom before we set the bees in.
 
#23 ·
Sevin XLR Plus may be an alternative spray. It can be sprayed in the evening and once it is dry is non-toxic to honeybees. It is effective for chewing insects. I'm not sure how squash bugs harm the plants, but may be a possible alternative if someone has to spray with bees present.
 
#27 ·
I think if there is a lesson to be learned from this situation it is that some sort of provision should be made ahead of time to have the equipment hand to screen in your hives or have them on some sort of pallet that would allow them to be quickly and easily moved out of the area.
 
#28 ·
tough situation on both sides of this fence.

the squash bug is hard to kill and the adult form of what you pictured is quicker and hard bodied and hides. I wouldn't want the answer to sevin to be a systemic which is sprayed less often but is present in all plant tissues including pollen and nectar all the time. I have a large home garden growing summer and winter squash so the food supply is present longer for these buggars they suck the plant and scar the fruit reducing health of plant and appeal of produce. I used sevin in the evening it is contact so i get under leaves and around based where they hide then let it dry. when the flowers open in the morning it shouldn't be a problem unless they are drinking dew from leaves. Might want to close hives up for half a day after treatment to really let it dry. They will have to treat several more times this season. Recourse for losses wouldn't be the farmer if he is using it as lable indicates but many states will reimburse in this type of situation. good luck
 
#29 ·
Without seeing what the label on the specific formulation being used, it's hard to say anything...but a quick google found what appears to be a standard label for sevin...it states in part:
This product is highly toxic to bees exposed to direct treatment or residues on blooming crops or weeds. Do not apply this product or allow it to drift to blooming crops or weeds if bees are visiting the treatment area. Contact your Cooperative Agricultural Extension SErvice or your local Bayer Environmental Science rep. for further information.

Directions For Use
It is a violation of Federal Law to use this product in a manner inconsistant with its labeling.
...you can move the bees...but who is going to move the other pollinators? This use is most likely a clear violation of the label and therefore the law...and it's environmentally (and agriculturally) stupid.....they are poisoning the very insects that the need in order to have pumpkins...in order to grow pumpkins?

You have rights in this situation...if the neighbor is a reasonable sort, then you should talk to them. If not, contact your extension office, and cal bayer back and ask why they didn't point out that this was a direct violation of the label.

This is not something you have to live with.

deknow
 
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