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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Reading, Michigan
    Posts
    140

    Default 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    When I came home today my Amish neighbors were spraying their pumpkin field (in full bloom) with Sevin.
    Only 200 yards from my 50 colony home yard. I went straight over to talk to them and they had apparently just gotten started.
    However they had already sprayed a good strip and I could clearly see the bees working the open blooms.
    They were very polite and stopped the spraying.
    I offered to screen in my bees tonight so they could spray in the AM.
    After the spray has dried I will open things back up. I don't think there are many options here.
    They don't want to lose the pumpkins, I don't want to lose my bees.
    Any suggestions? Will the bees be harmed by this once the spray has dried?
    There's not enough sheep dogs and the wolves are coming!!!!!!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grosse Ile, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,831

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    The Amish using pesticides, what is this world coming to.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
    Posts
    629

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    From the net...

    Carbaryl (Sevin)

    Bees poisoned with carbaryl can take 2–3 days to die, appearing inactive as if cold. It allows them time to take contaminated nectar and pollen back to the colony. Some crops treated with Sevin under the wrong conditions (in bloom, using a dust formulation, with large numbers of bees in the field) have been responsible for disastrous kills. Sevin is one of the United States' most widely used insecticides for a wide variety of insect pests. It is also one of the most toxic to honey bees, in certain formulations. These should never be sprayed on flowering crops especially if bees are active and the crop requires pollination. There are formulations, however, which are determined to be less toxic (see tables). Usually, applicator-beekeeper communication can effectively be used to adequately protect bees from Sevin poisoning.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Montgomery County, PA USA
    Posts
    47

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    Your neighbors must be Mennonites. Amish would not use pesticides.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Lyndhurst, va
    Posts
    139

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    I raise some winter squash. It blooms in the AM and usually by mid afternoon the blossoms are closed. I would think pumpkins would do the same. I think it would be best if the pumpkins were sprayed in the evening when the blossoms are closed. Then, in the AM, the blossoms will open up and be clean. Otherwise, the Sevin spray will get into the blossoms.

    I am not an expert on this. Just trying to help.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Maryville, tn, usa
    Posts
    208

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    agree with spieker. squash and pumpkin bloom early and are often worked by squash bee and honey bee early in day. Best for bee if spray is late in day but if it is wet and humid it's not so good for the pumpkin... without pollinators hitting those flowers they will have alot drop off and have poor pumpkin set. And lets be real Amish like baptists are different from area to area and some are more lax then others. Squash bugs and squash beetles are hard to control and they don't have a good bio-control out there for them. gotta strike a balance.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Reading, Michigan
    Posts
    140

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    These are dirt floor poor Amish, very good people but no recourse for me if they kill my bees.
    Just got off the phone with Bayer Crop Science, the first thing the representative said is make sure the wind isn't blowing toward your bees. I just about exploded on him, he obviously knew nothing about pollination.
    Then he pulled the label up on his system and said wait a minute the residual will kill bees for up to 30 days (well DUH!!!)
    His final answer was "tell them to find another (more bee friendly) product to take care of their problem or they'll hear from your attorney". As I said these are very poor Amish, and It would do no good to go after them.
    There's not enough sheep dogs and the wolves are coming!!!!!!

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,887

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    Amish I know always use loads of pesticides. They have too, their lives depend on the crop.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Stafford, Virginia
    Posts
    289

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    We pollinate hundreds of acres of pumpkins. Our growers spray at night. They also move the hives (which are on trailers) out of the area prior to spraying and return them the next evening or later depending on the type of spray.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Reading, Michigan
    Posts
    140

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    Bugs on pumpkins 8-12.jpg
    I spoke with the Amishmen again, he said he would give me time (a day or so) to find an alternative control for his bug problem.
    I have posted a pic of the invader, does anyone know of a bee friendly method to control these?
    He has no idea what they are but he knew Sevin would knock them out.
    I don't really see any damage to his pumpkins?
    When I collected this sample (6:30 PM) as others have said the blooms were closed, however ther were still lots of bees looking for open ones.
    The Amish still thinks he must spray something. It is now on me to find out what can be safely used.
    This is a permanent yard so moving the bees out would not be an easy fix, especially with a 30 day residual.
    There's not enough sheep dogs and the wolves are coming!!!!!!

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Hampton CT
    Posts
    360

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    Now everyone should know why I refuse to pollinate squash or pumpkins. Just too much exposure to pesticide. I wish you luck. You need to impress upon your neighbors the need to READ AND FOLLOW the directions. Remind them that pesticide lables are not only directions but they also are federal law.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Danbury, CT
    Posts
    2,887

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    I grow pumpkins; I only spray when the plants are young. By this time of year they are large and strong enough that the squash bugs and cuc Beatles really cant do much damage. Before they start to run is when they are most vulnerable.

    The flowers close in late afternoon, just ask that the spray after they close so your bees are not in the field and the flowers themselves are not getting sprayed.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Hampton CT
    Posts
    360

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    I just saw the post of the pest. Squash bugs! Hard to control without pesticide.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    fairfield,ohio
    Posts
    672

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    I also have bees on a field of pumpkin. When the plant is mature the blooms will remain open during the day if they are in the shade of the leaves.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Rowley, MA
    Posts
    247

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    take a look at Spinosad sic ? one brand is Captain Jack's Dead bug Brew. it is toxic to bees when wet but once it dries it has minimal impact (or so they say)

  16. #16

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    Thiodane aka Endosulfan, 8 hours toxicity, or Asana aka Esfenvalerate no toxicity to bees on blooms once dry. Both will drop bees on the spot if they're sprayed. Take it from me. I have bees, and spray on the bloom, all the time. When crops need sprayin, they get it, and the bees always get consideration. Flip flop, both of those chemicals are registered pesticides requiring applicator license.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Eldersburg, MD, USA
    Posts
    166

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    Mind you, this advice is coming from someone who had only a few squash plants. We would actually use tape to press against the eggs and wingless nymphs to kill them, but I can tell you that squash bugs will very quickly devastate a plant and the produce affecting it's appearance and ability to keep in storage. I try to avoid spraying but if I use anything, I use either Spinosad or Permethrin in the evening to minimize the effect on all pollinators. I believe Permethrin needs to actually contact bees to cause problems. Adult squash bugs are hard to kill...
    I'm not an expert just sharing my inexpert knowledge.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    santa monica, ca
    Posts
    175

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    I don't know the law in Mich, but in CA pesticide users can be held libel for spraying near the hives if they don't follow the protocol in the statute. Find out the law in your area Show it to the farmer if it favors you.
    Buzz Abbott
    USDA zone 11a, Western Garden zone 24 (75 ft elev. n34.0w118.47)

  19. #19

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    lol to guns. Not much pesticide problems on mine, and with the right chems it dosen't hurt the bees more than what the rest of the ag crows is dousing the world in. As far as spray on pumpkins, it's bravo bravo bravo. I'm so tired of bravo. I spray, it rains, I spray, it rains. Luckily low toxicity to bees. so if you see spraying on pumpkins and automatically assume its killing bees, OR that you know what they're actually doing, that's unprofitable. Ironically sevin and premethrin, the two most used pesticides by small operators/homeowners, are pretty much the most, extremely toxic to bees. But seriously, you see a guy spray pumpkins 8 times, its fungicide. Bugs are easier to kill than fungus, one, maybe two rotations of systemic knocks em dead.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Brasher Falls, NY, USA
    Posts
    26,608

    Default Re: 10 acres of Pumpkins in full bloom, Amish soaking them with Sevin!?!?!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by mulesii View Post
    Your neighbors must be Mennonites. Amish would not use pesticides.
    You shouldn't use generalizations like that. They aren't true. I know plenty of Amish who use pesticides.
    Mark Berninghausen "That which works, persists."

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