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Thread: craigslist post

  1. #21
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    I could see paying for a swarm, but not if I had to drive far. All bees are a crap shot, some less than others. You could take that swarm and drop it in your box and they all fly away the next day.

  2. #22
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    Quote Originally Posted by shannonswyatt View Post
    I could see paying for a swarm, but not if I had to drive far. All bees are a crap shot, some less than others. You could take that swarm and drop it in your box and they all fly away the next day.
    I wouldn't pay for a swarm. They called me because they don't want the bees and I do. Mutually beneficial agreement in my opinion.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    A friend of my dads sells swarms every spring. This year he sold 20 at $40 a pop. He calls you when he gets one. He overwinters his hives in a single deep and in the spring they swarm. Not sure why he does that, but he does.

    I would pay for a swarm over buying package bees. They are ready to go when you hive them, where package bees need more help.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    This has more to do with a Florida law that was pointed out halfway through the thread: In Florida, if you DO NOT have a license for pest control, you are NOT ALLOWED to charge to remove bees. It's not a choice of "should I or shouldn't I charge?" So, if you get a call from someone to do a cut out, it's 110 degrees out, the cut is on the second story, a dearth is on and the girls are VERY angry, etc... You have to do it for free unless you paid for a license to be an exterminator.

    But this isn't about if there should be a charge, this has to do with the content of an ad that a professional exterminator put up to malign beekeepers by not explaining that the law does not ALLOW for beekeepers to charge, the author is implying that free bee removal implies "neophyte." You could have been a licensed contractor for 30 years and a beekeeper for 20, but according to this schmuck, you're a neophyte. It's unethical, but ethics isn't a matter of law, hence my suggestion to post a counter-ad.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    Toker: Just wondering (and I realize you likely are not the individual who wrote the law) why a beek would need an exterminators license to remove bees alive. Exterminators KILL the pests they are after. No killing, no exterminating. Just me, but I think if I lived in FL I would happily violate that one and not lose a moment of sleep. -js

  6. #26
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    Quote Originally Posted by shannonswyatt View Post
    I would pay for a swarm over buying package bees. They are ready to go when you hive them, where package bees need more help.
    There was a multiple year study done by Uconn and Al Avitabile that showed that over 90% of Natural swarms fail to survive their first winter.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    There was a multiple year study done by Uconn and Al Avitabile that showed that over 90% of Natural swarms fail to survive their first winter.
    Is that swarms that are captured by people or ones that take up a natural habitat (hive) out in the wild somewhere?
    Plant Hardiness Zone 6B, 5300 ft., Bee Zone A/B, Proverbs 24:13
    https://www.facebook.com/mobileprotection#!/2RBeeFarm

  8. #28
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    Quote Originally Posted by bhfury View Post
    Is that swarms that are captured by people or ones that take up a natural habitat (hive) out in the wild somewhere?
    Hived swarms. It would be hard to collect such data on feral swarms. No way to know when they moved into a cavity in a tree or house wall.

  9. #29
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    I can't see that happening. Feral (swarms) hives survive as well as flourish on their own with no human intervention whatsoever. No treatments, supplimental feeding, etc.
    That number sounds too high to be realistic. I would think that a feral colony is the ultimate survivor in the bee kingdom.
    All three of my hives are from swarms and they seem to do just fine. Haven't lost one yet.
    At least that is my experience.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    Quote Originally Posted by dixiebooks View Post
    ...why a beek would need an exterminators license to remove bees alive. Exterminators KILL the pests they are after. No killing, no exterminating. Just me, but I think if I lived in FL I would happily violate that one and not lose a moment of sleep. -js
    The conspiracy theorist in me thinks that big corporate exterminator companies lobbied to have that inserted to give a boost to their bottom line.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    Safety in numbers: There are an estimated 3 Million beehives in the US. If we were all astute about swarm prevention, which we aren't, and only 10 % of those hive swarmed once per year. We are looking at 300,000 swarms and only 10 % survived we are still looking at 30,000 swarms surviving their first winter; leaving 600 established colonies per state per year...

    Numbers suddenly seem very realistic.

  12. #32
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    Probably a realistic number, but I'm surprised. What is the percentage on the packages?

  13. #33
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    I get about 85-90% survival on packages. I think the average is much closer to 60%, but inexperience accounts for some of that.
    I actually hear a very common story every year: A person bought local nucs their first year because of the better chances of survival, lost all of them over winter and buy packages from me the second year because if they are going to die anyway... they might as well buy the cheaper product.

    I installed 2 locally purchased nucs this year and 6 packages. Just to give me a better perspective on the local nuc vs package debate.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    I would suggest that you post a link to the ad and asked that people flag it. It does not take too many flags to get a post deleted.
    I would also post the counter post as suggested earlier. Include the language about Fl law.
    I found it interesting that the ad was in the for sale/items wanted section and not the services section. You could also post your counter in the services section and site the attempt to give BK a bad name in the for sale section. Tell people of the plight of the bee, and to make sure that the 'professional' will not kill the bees.
    Buzz Abbott
    USDA zone 11a, Western Garden zone 24 (75 ft elev. n34.0w118.47)

  15. #35
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    I liked the way that you put 'professional' in single quotes. Getting paid to do something does not make one a professional (except in sports). Not getting paid for something does not make one an amateur.

    My guess is that someone that goes to Craigs list for someone to do something for them is not necessarily interested in the decal on the side of the truck, or the embossing on the business cards. They want two things, low cost and bees gone. Or maybe bees gone and low cost.

    You can't compete with free, but you can be there after the fail. If they are truly amateurs they are not likely to be interested in the hard cases, and that is the ones you would probably make the most on anyway.

  16. #36
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    Imagine if you will, a person is doing a cutout in Florida, a state known to have africanized bees. Now as the cutout progresses, the bees get a bit ticked off and a few of the neighbors get stung. One happens to be severely allergic and dies. Now if the person/company doing the cutout is a licensed exterminator he will have appropriate insurance and the homeowner will be covered not only by that insurance but by the fact that the homeowner hired a licensed professional removal company. If the homeowner hired Joe Blow a local registered beekeeper without appropriate liability insurance, the homeowner may become a renter very quickly.

    Now imagine the local guy cuts through a major structural member of the house and the house comes tumbling down, no insurance....

    Now imagine the local guy cuts trough an electrical wire and either burns the house down or electrocutes himself... no insurance...

    Now I realize that the same things could happen if the guy were doing it for free. But the reality is that there is no language in the Florida law that would allow for someone to do the removal for free. Sometimes laws are there to protect the consumer and this law is probably based on that.

    Chapter 482, F.S., defines pest control activity as: "a) The use of any method or device or the application of any substance to prevent, destroy, repel, mitigate, curb, control, or eradicate any pest in, on or under a structure, lawn or ornamental; b) the identification of or inspection for infestations or infections in, on, or under a structure, lawn, or ornamental; c) The use of any pesticide, economic poison, or mechanical device for preventing, controlling, eradicating, identifying, inspecting for, mitigating, diminishing, or curtailing insects, vermin, rodents, pest birds, bats, or other pests in, on, or under a structure, lawn, or ornamental; and d) All phases of fumigation, including: 1, the treatment of products by vault fumigation; and 2, the fumigation of boxcars, trucks, ships, airplanes, docks, warehouses, and common carriers; and e) the advertisement of, the solicitation of, or the acceptance of remuneration for any work described in this subsection, but does not include the solicitation of a bid from a licensee to be incorporated in an overall bid by an unlicensed primary contractor to supply services to another."

  17. #37
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    bluegrass......If over 90% of swarms fail to survive the first winter, why would anyone even bother to put out swarm boxes, if only 10, in 100 caught, would survive.

    I can see a low mortality rate among swarms, being that the swarm queen is the old queen, but, being the old queen does not mean that she isn't still a good queen. Failing queens are normally superceded after the swarm is established. That gives them a new queen. There are thousands of afterswarms each year, and all of these have new queens. That number seems exceptionally large. You don't happen to have a link or title to those studies do you. I sure would like to read them.

    cchoganjr

  18. #38
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    Cleo

    Not everything is on the internet. But I am sure if you contacted Al he could get you the results of the study. I actually learned about this at an association meeting he presented the results at. I think the publication is currently housed at Yale University library with the rest of the state's apiculture collection. You may be able to email them and ask about it.

    I agree that my personal results are higher than that, but they are not better than a Package of bees which is what I was responding to.

    JB: Thanks for sharing the Florida law... that is pretty extreme. Better not set mouse traps in your house without a license, or mole traps in your lawn

  19. #39
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    Quote Originally Posted by bluegrass View Post
    Cleo

    Not everything is on the internet. But I am sure if you contacted Al he could get you the results of the study. I actually learned about this at an association meeting he presented the results at. I think the publication is currently housed at Yale University library with the rest of the state's apiculture collection. You may be able to email them and ask about it.

    I agree that my personal results are higher than that, but they are not better than a Package of bees which is what I was responding to.

    JB: Thanks for sharing the Florida law... that is pretty extreme. Better not set mouse traps in your house without a license, or mole traps in your lawn
    There are exceptions and one is that the homeowner or renter may treat for pests themselves.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: craigslist post

    Out of curiosity I had to look up the law: http://www.flsenate.gov/Laws/Statute...Chapter482/All
    Passed in 2010 by special session. Reading it the fines are 500.00 and up to 60 days in jail. But as I read it it is applicable to unlicensed pest control companies. Also there is an exemption section that excludes agricultural operations.
    I wouldn't advertise as that is specifically defined as soliciting and requires a license. But I think there are enough exemptions that if you are doing it for free you really are not in violation.

    If an inspector shows up tell them your bees took off and you are trying to catch them.

    For them to go into special session to pass this there had to be a big reason for doing so... Wish I could find out what it was.

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