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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    Greenwood, Indiana
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    Default The Best Advice I've Gotten So Far From This Forum

    Other than a boat load of great advice from Michael Bush (book and forum) and several other very helpful members of this TBH forum, the following keeps coming back to haunt me:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier View Post
    I'm wondering if the queens flew out and away while I was putting the bars back on the top after I opened the escape caps on the cages.

    HarryVanderpool replied:
    Every year, year after year the same sad story.
    Why?
    Well Hoosier, it probably is not your fault. You were not given good advice from the package provider.
    Why were you in the hive in just 4 days??!!!
    Next time, pull the cork fromn the candy end.
    DO NOT poke a hole in the candy !
    Write the date that the package was installed on a peice of tape and place on the lid..
    DO NOT touch the hive other than to quietly slide the lid aside and fill the feeder until AT LEAST 10 days.
    The queen WILL be released and laying.
    Going into the hive early as you did is asking for queen balling.
    Many hundreds, maybe thousands of queens are lost every year to newbees that were unfortunatly given goofy advice or none at all about proper queen release.
    We see it year after year. Observe simple procedure with 98% acceptance,or go with the goofy. 40% or less.
    All of the "push-in cages" or direct release, or "just toss her in"; loosing strategies.
    Go with percentages on your side!
    Pull the cork and keep your hands off for AT LEAST ten days.
    At that point all of the hives pherimones should be in balance.
    Then you can bang around and not worry.

    Honeybees don't read the same books we do!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Houston, Texas, USA
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    460

    Default Re: The Best Advice I've Gotten So Far From This Forum

    I had to re-queen twice in June on my first hive. With the third queen installed and a 10 day no peek she was fat and busy. An expensive lesson for me.
    Mike
    N5RWH - 9a

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2010
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    Hampton CT
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    Default Re: The Best Advice I've Gotten So Far From This Forum

    Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    Madison, VA, USA
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    Default Re: The Best Advice I've Gotten So Far From This Forum

    Hmm I wonder how this squares with foundationless though . . .

    I did that very method with my package install and while both were successful (one hive did supercede a month or so later though), placing the queen cage between frames was a poor idea in my opinion. Next year I am still going to place the queen cage in the hives with the cork removed from the candy end, but I think I am going to try using electrical tape to tape it inside the frame. I know you can use drawn out frames from other hives to fix this but I doubt I will have enough for that.

    I have also considered the direct release method for next year though, but I think I may wait to experiment with that when I start raising queens and therefore have extras.
    See my progress at http://bpapiaries.blogspot.com!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: The Best Advice I've Gotten So Far From This Forum

    What does that have to do with any thing? The point is to leave the queen alone for ten days!
    Quote Originally Posted by BPApiaries View Post
    Hmm I wonder how this squares with foundationless though . . .

    I did that very method with my package install and while both were successful (one hive did supercede a month or so later though), placing the queen cage between frames was a poor idea in my opinion. Next year I am still going to place the queen cage in the hives with the cork removed from the candy end, but I think I am going to try using electrical tape to tape it inside the frame. I know you can use drawn out frames from other hives to fix this but I doubt I will have enough for that.

    I have also considered the direct release method for next year though, but I think I may wait to experiment with that when I start raising queens and therefore have extras.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Madison, VA, USA
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    Default Re: The Best Advice I've Gotten So Far From This Forum

    I was mentioning that with foundationless leaving the queen in the cage can cause a lot of problems and in his post it says that direct release is a losing strategy . . .
    See my progress at http://bpapiaries.blogspot.com!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    Default Re: The Best Advice I've Gotten So Far From This Forum

    It's nice to have percentages of success with different strategies, but where did they come from? Are they accurate?
    No experienced beekeeper with an expensive breeder queen to introduce would do so the way described.....they would "mess around" with a push in cage, as it is nearly foolproof.
    Deknow

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Santa Fe, NM
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    Default Re: The Best Advice I've Gotten So Far From This Forum

    Mr. Vanderpools dogmatic reply asserting a "my way or the highway" approach to introducing queens serves no real educational purpose. For me the 10 day waiting period is somewhat comical. Hoosier, you will be well advised to follow the beekeeping procedures professed by those of a little more temperate vocabulary concerning bee protocol. Deknow is correct, push in cages are nearly foolproof.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  9. #9
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    Default Re: The Best Advice I've Gotten So Far From This Forum

    ...nearly foolproof with one caveat...you will have to handle the queen. For a package of bees with a standard package queen, I would not bother with a push in cage (and I wouldn't want a newbee to try to get the queen safely into the push in cage...a newbee probably wouldn't have emerging brood to push the cage into either). but to dismiss the push in cage is not helpful to the beekeeper who is trying to gain knowledge.

    deknow

  10. #10
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    Aug 2011
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    Default Re: The Best Advice I've Gotten So Far From This Forum

    Quote Originally Posted by deknow View Post
    ...nearly foolproof with one caveat...you will have to handle the queen. For a package of bees with a standard package queen, I would not bother with a push in cage (and I wouldn't want a newbee to try to get the queen safely into the push in cage...a newbee probably wouldn't have emerging brood to push the cage into either). but to dismiss the push in cage is not helpful to the beekeeper who is trying to gain knowledge.

    deknow
    First off I did not know before this thread what a "push in cage" was, so I Googled about a half hour ago. You're right. I didn't have emerging brood, and I wouldn't have trusted myself to handle the queen... no way.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: The Best Advice I've Gotten So Far From This Forum

    I always have direct released my queens from packages, and we always did 20 years ago. For re-queening though, using a push in cage you don't neccessarily have to handle the queen. I open the cork end of the cage and slide it under the introduction cage layed on the brood and let her walk out onto the brood. Then you can move the cage around and place it where you want on the comb with her under it. I like to make my cages fairly large 3" x 4" or so. Everyone has their best way of doing things obviously. Any novice would only have to watch someone experienced do it once or twice and they would be fine.
    "Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay".....Krishnamurti

  12. #12
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    Default Re: The Best Advice I've Gotten So Far From This Forum

    Agree. What we did, and with simple success, was to do this:

    1. Remove the queen cage and set it carefully aside.
    2. Thump (the bees fall to the bottom) ... shake shake shake ... thump ... shake shake shake ...
    3. Take the queen cage, gently remove the non-candy plug with the help of a needle, and promptly put your finger over the opening.
    4. Now, set the queen cage right down there among all those bees, with the opening facing down the length of the hive. Don't use a tool; just your gloved hand. "Just do it and be done." Yes, you can, if you have to, set the cage right on top of 'em... they'll move.
    5. Begin replacing the rest of the bars, noticing that indeed the queen is being surrounded by her faithful courtiers. Just keep replacing those bars, and put on the lid. (Be sure to remove at least one cork from the hive opening!)
    6. Leave the whole thing completely alone for at least four weeks. Don't go in there to take the cage out.


    If you just can't get rid of the notion that she might up and fly away, very lightly mist her wings with the tiniest "spritz" of plain water. But you really don't need to do that.

    If you really want to use candy, use your own candy: just a smear of a fresh miniature marshmallow will do the trick. Move your finger, swipe it on there (without pressing it in), and replace your finger over the hole. Any insect can munch its way through a fresh marshmallow. But you probably don't need to do that, either.

    No matter how anxious or just how curious you might "bee," leave everything alone. In a few weeks, when you're in the hive for other reasons, you'll find the queen cage sitting there where you left it, abandoned and completely ignored by the bees.

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